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Viewing topic "MIDI Signal is Gone"

     
Posted on: July 30, 2017 @ 08:34 AM
Donald-M
Total Posts:  655
Joined  11-08-2007
status: Guru

I don’t know if this is a Driver issue, a Win-10 issue or something with my DAW, which is Pro Tools 12.7.  Earlier this summer I upgraded my system to Win-10 from Win-7.  I’ve experienced all sorts of technical issues with my system since. 

The latest is that my MIDI connection between the Motif XS and Pro Tools doesn’t work 80% of the time.  Here’s the details:

My Motif is connected to my PC via Firewire.  I’ve used the Motif as my main MIDI keyboard for years this way, with Pro Tools, with virtually no issues.  FW always works to play and record MIDI tracks and/or VIs. 

When I upgraded to Win-10, I made sure I had the latest FW driver for Win-10, which is 1.6.64 as far as I can tell. 

Sometmes I have to reboot my PC 2-3 times before the MIDI is live.  I test it by opening the Motif Editor.  If I’m able to use the editor with the FW connection, then it usually works when I open a PT session.  But not always. 

However, sometimes, I can’t even get the editor to recognize the Motif is there, and I have to reboot the PC...OR...worse, uninstall and reinstall the driver!

This is ridiculous.  I have no idea even where to begin to resolve this.  Can someone shed some light here for me?  If there’s a more recent version of the driver, I can’t find it.

Before anyone asks, yes, I’ve checked and rechecked the MIDI settings on the Motif and it is correct.  And I’ve done the same in Pro Tools with the MIDI Studio settings there.  That is NOT the problem.

Do I need to update something else?  The USB MIDI Driver?  I just don’t know what to look for.  Thank you

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Posted on: July 31, 2017 @ 08:28 AM
meatballfulton
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If you are not using USB MIDI, then you don’t need that driver.

Is the issue only MIDI or also audio? If it’s just MIDI you could try installing the USB MIDI driver and seting the XS to use USB for MIDI and see if that solves the problem.

Your experience is why I always dread OS upgrades, something always breaks.

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Posted on: July 31, 2017 @ 06:36 PM
Donald-M
Total Posts:  655
Joined  11-08-2007
status: Guru
meatballfulton - 31 July 2017 08:28 AM

If you are not using USB MIDI, then you don’t need that driver.

Is the issue only MIDI or also audio? If it’s just MIDI you could try installing the USB MIDI driver and seting the XS to use USB for MIDI and see if that solves the problem.

Your experience is why I always dread OS upgrades, something always breaks.

Audio is fine.  After 6 reboots, everything worked.  But every time I start up my system, its a new adventure is things not working right.  No, I’m only using the Firewire, so I didn’t think I’d need the USB drive.  I don’t even have anything plugged in to the USB.  I was able to lay down some audio tracks today via the S/PDif output, which I normally use.  But when I tried to lay down 4 tracks off a Performance, I got a horrible feed-back noise.  I had everything set up in Pro Tools correctly to receive Audio via the Firewire.  I long ago created an I/O set up when I want to send signals to Pro Tools via the Firewire.  But it still didn’t work properly.  So I’m not sure what’s up with that. 

But this on again/off again business with the MIDI signal itself is maddening to say the least.  I’m convinced that something in the upgrade to Win-10 disrupted the normal flow, even though I’ve made triple sure I’ve updated everything to Win-10 compatibility. 

Its a PITA when I’m under deadline to deliver tracks to my client..which I am right now!  I’m already a day late because of losing so many hours problem solving. 

I also wish like heck that the Motif could work in 48k as that would allow me to interface with the S/PDif (my preferred audio output) directly into the session.  I work in 48k mainly because I’m composing for video, and that’s the preferred standard.  But unless Yamaha provides some hardware gizmo that will allow that, that’s always going to be an issue for me.

For now, I just want to figure out what the heck is messing up the Firewire MIDI.  Its not Pro Tools per se, either, as I often can’t even get the Motif Editor to “see” the Motif via the Firewire.  After 6 reboots, it finally did, and it worked in Pro Tools, too.  So, I got today’s tracks done anyways. 

Tomorrow, we’ll just have to see. 

But if anyone here has some suggestions on what to look for...please speak up! Thank you.

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Posted on: August 01, 2017 @ 05:37 AM
meatballfulton
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You wrote you upgraded your system from Win7 to Win 10...did you only change the OS or did you get a new computer? The Yamaha FW is known to be touchy about the FW chipset in the computer, some brands just don’t work right.

Donald-M - 31 July 2017 06:36 PM
meatballfulton - 31 July 2017 08:28 AM

Is the issue only MIDI or also audio?

Audio is fine.

OK…

I had everything set up in Pro Tools correctly to receive Audio via the Firewire.  I long ago created an I/O set up when I want to send signals to Pro Tools via the Firewire.  But it still didn’t work properly.  So I’m not sure what’s up with that.

Well that seems to contradict that “audio is fine”.

For now I would just go with USB MIDI and SPDIF for audio if that will get you working again. Then I would contact Yamaha support.

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Posted on: August 01, 2017 @ 09:35 AM
5pinDIN
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Donald-M - 30 July 2017 08:34 AM

When I upgraded to Win-10, I made sure I had the latest FW driver for Win-10, which is 1.6.64 as far as I can tell.

There are 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the v1.6.6 FW driver. Are you sure you installed the correct one for the 32- or 64-bit version of Windows 10 you’re running?

 

Donald-M -

Do I need to update something else?

Which version of the mLAN16E2 FW firmware (IEEE1394) is installed?

The correct one would be v1.07. Running the updater will reveal the currently installed firmware (see the PDFs in the download). The most recent updater I can find runs under Windows 7:
https://usa.yamaha.com/support/updates/52019_en.html
I can’t find one for Windows 10, but that might work.

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Posted on: August 02, 2017 @ 11:54 AM
Donald-M
Total Posts:  655
Joined  11-08-2007
status: Guru
meatballfulton - 01 August 2017 05:37 AM


I had everything set up in Pro Tools correctly to receive Audio via the Firewire.  I long ago created an I/O set up when I want to send signals to Pro Tools via the Firewire.  But it still didn’t work properly.  So I’m not sure what’s up with that.

Well that seems to contradict that “audio is fine”.

For now I would just go with USB MIDI and SPDIF for audio if that will get you working again. Then I would contact Yamaha support.

Well, actually no.  I’m ashamed to admit this, but when I was trying to record those tracks, I completely overlooked swiching my interface from the Focusrite to the Motif, which is the only way to do multiple track laydowns via firewire.  Once I did that last night, it all worked swimmingly for the audio.  Doh!

And to answer you other question, all I upgraded was the OS.  Same PC system I’ve had for a couple years.  I have good system, Dell XPS 435T/9000 Win-10 Pro 24gig RAM.  I have 4 internal HD’s, one for OS, one for my Pro Tools sessions, one for samples, and one for everything else (downloads, file saving, that sort of thing.), and 1 external 1TB Drive via USB3 for a sample library for East-West.  Plus my WD Backup drive for everything.  So hardware wise I’m in pretty good shape.  My systems meets (actually exceeds) all the requirements for Pro Tools and my other production software. 

Which brings me back to the issue at hand.  It just doesn’t make sense! I wish I knew what to check.

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Posted on: August 02, 2017 @ 11:59 AM
Donald-M
Total Posts:  655
Joined  11-08-2007
status: Guru
5pinDIN - 01 August 2017 09:35 AM
Donald-M - 30 July 2017 08:34 AM

When I upgraded to Win-10, I made sure I had the latest FW driver for Win-10, which is 1.6.64 as far as I can tell.

There are 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the v1.6.6 FW driver. Are you sure you installed the correct one for the 32- or 64-bit version of Windows 10 you’re running?

Yes, that was the first thing I checked, and I do have the 64bit version.  And it is ver 1.07, which I checked as well.  So, as far as I can tell, I have the correct and latest updates on that.

That’s what makes this issue so frustrating, it makes no logical sense!  My firmware is at latest versions, my drivers are all latest versions, and, as far as I can tell, none of my hardware is faulty...all diagnostics tell me everything is working normally.  So what the hell is going on! 

I just have to believe that something in the Win-10 upgrade changed some configuration or other in the OS that affected how the FW driver responds.  If it NEVER worked that would be one thing.  But the fact that after multiple reboots it does work, makes it even worse.  So on the 9th reboot Win-10 suddenly can “see” the Motif with the FW driver?  Why not on the first boot up?  This does not compute!  

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Posted on: August 04, 2017 @ 07:52 AM
meatballfulton
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While it might sound stupid, if the FW audio always works but the FW MIDI requires multiple reboots, I would just switch to using USB for MIDI and move forward.

Good luck.

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Posted on: August 10, 2017 @ 11:54 AM
Donald-M
Total Posts:  655
Joined  11-08-2007
status: Guru

Well, I found the solution.  What was required was to update the FW Hardware driver itself for Win-10.  I made the assumption that the upgrade to Win-10 from Win-7 would include all necessary drivers.  Nope.  Turns out the FW issue is a known issue, and has plagued many, especially in video applications.  The fix is to uninstall the existing driver, and then install the Legacy driver for FW for Win-10 (same as for Win-8, actually).  Once that was done, it works normally now. 

So it was neither a Motif XS nor a Pro Tools issue, but an OS issue with Win-10 itself!  Something to bear in mind.

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Posted on: August 10, 2017 @ 12:36 PM
5pinDIN
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Donald-M - 10 August 2017 11:54 AM

So it was neither a Motif XS nor a Pro Tools issue, but an OS issue with Win-10 itself!  Something to bear in mind.

Thanks for letting us know.

Many users typically replace their computer every 4-5 years, and may upgrade the computer’s OS one or more times. It seems that computer manufacturers, and providers of operating systems like Microsoft, are either unaware or don’t care that synths are often kept for decades, and require legacy support for far longer than ordinary computer hardware. About 85% of the US population has a computer. I don’t know what percentage also have a synth, and interface it to their computer - perhaps the number isn’t high enough to influence computer/OS designers.

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