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Viewing topic "Does Cubase Have a Pattern Sequencer????"

     
Posted on: May 12, 2018 @ 05:57 PM
lastmonk
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Does Cubase have a Pattern Sequencer?  I heard there are some whack plugins, but no base functionality within cubase.  I’ve been having a heated argument recently about Motif vs Montage with a friend.

He told me that he used Cubase as his sequencer.  But I thought Cubase did not have pattern sequencing.  At least I could not find it in my copy (which I rarely use these days).  If its there it must be buried in a menu somewhere.  Not to long ago this was on steinberg:

https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=57003

Didn’t Yamaha point Montage customers to Cubase as their solution for Full blown Sequencing?  That would really suck if Yamaha takes sequencing out of the flagship, points the customer to Cubase and cubase doesn’t have all of the sequencing features that Motif has.  So I must be mistaken.  Anybody out there using Pattern Sequencing in Cubase?  If so did you have to get a plug in?

I’m still puzzled why Yamaha took out full blown sequencing from their flagship. Especially if Cubase doesn’t have all the sequencing features that are available in the Motif! Hopefully it does, and I’m wrong.

Hasn’t Yamaha’s flagships always had pattern sequencers dating all the way back to the 90s?

Yamaha EX5
Yamaha SY77
Motif

Heck even the QY 10 thru QY700 had pattern sequencers.

And there were software based sequencing packages back then, so why did Yamaha wait until now to take it out?  Software Sequencers and Yamaha’s Hardware Sequencers have coexisted for 25+ years.  So what’s the real reason why Yamaha dropped it from their flagship after all of this time?

If Cubase doesn’t have pattern sequencing, is Yamaha/Steinberg planning to add it as a new “for pay” plugin?  :-(

Do they some how want to cash in on the DJ/EDM craze that uses pattern sequencing as one of their primary tools?

Just curious I guess....  Or maybe the instigator in me kicking in LOL

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Posted on: May 13, 2018 @ 12:34 PM
Davelet
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I fully agree. I use pattern sequencing in my MOXF all the time to compose and arrange songs, and as far as I can see there is nothing remotely comparable in ease of use and flexibility in Cubase, and I would love it if there were.

The Montage for me is a huge disappointment, simply because it has dropped such a great feature for making songs. All the sounds and simultaneous arps and effects of the Montage mean nothing for me without the sequencer.

And it’s not even as though the sequencer can cost *that* much - the Motif/MOXF one stores, what, about 1 Mb of data? And it can’t be more than a few lines of code on a microcontroller/processor, and the GUI/UI overhead surely is very little.

A sequencer on the Montage with 10x the memory so you could actually hold a decent number of songs without getting the dreaded “sequencer full” message would be a dream!

My friends with MOXF or Motif instruments all say pretty much the same.

Also of interest is the second-hand prices for the Montage on eBay seem to have dropped to about the same level as second-hand prices for used Motif XF’s. One wonders if Yamaha made a wise decision to end-of-life the Motif.

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Posted on: May 14, 2018 @ 11:45 AM
lastmonk
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Davelet - 13 May 2018 12:34 PM

I fully agree. I use pattern sequencing in my MOXF all the time to compose and arrange songs, and as far as I can see there is nothing remotely comparable in ease of use and flexibility in Cubase, and I would love it if there were.

The Montage for me is a huge disappointment, simply because it has dropped such a great feature for making songs. All the sounds and simultaneous arps and effects of the Montage mean nothing for me without the sequencer.

And it’s not even as though the sequencer can cost *that* much - the Motif/MOXF one stores, what, about 1 Mb of data? And it can’t be more than a few lines of code on a microcontroller/processor, and the GUI/UI overhead surely is very little.

A sequencer on the Montage with 10x the memory so you could actually hold a decent number of songs without getting the dreaded “sequencer full” message would be a dream!

My friends with MOXF or Motif instruments all say pretty much the same.

Also of interest is the second-hand prices for the Montage on eBay seem to have dropped to about the same level as second-hand prices for used Motif XF’s. One wonders if Yamaha made a wise decision to end-of-life the Motif.

I know, that at the end of the day with enough effort, you can probably make pieces of Midi and then play some kind of file/track management game in Cubase and approximate something like a Pattern Sequencer in Cubase but....  The Pattern Sequencer in the Motif has full support for:

Phrase Libraries (Accessed Through Patch Mode and Jobs)
Pattern Libraries (Accessed through jobs)
Loop Remix that can be easily applied to the Phrases and Phrase Libraries.

Not to mention the fact that one can easily integrate Motif’s Mixing Mode, with full synthesis Voice and effect editing from the Pattern Sequencer.

In Plain Vanilla Cubase (No plugins) what I’m hearing and inferring is that it is possible to Make crude Pattern Mode Sequencer functionality, but nothing like the tight integration that the Pattern Mode Sequencer has with the Motif.  Cubase has No Pattern library functionality, No Phrase library functionality.  Not really.  The Montage + Cubase still falls far far short of what we have on the Motif.  I remember when they first dropped the marketing speak for the Montage, they hit us with all that “better / streamlined workflow” mumbo jumbo.  But from where I sit if you’re trying to do Pattern Sequencing and have developed a workflow around Pattern Sequencing “Live Or in the Studio” The Montage can’t hold a candle to the Motif.  The Montage + Cubase can’t hold a candle to the Motif.

Somehow in Yamaha’s mind, the Montage’s Innovation of the motion sequencer and the superknob, outweighs the music production aspects of the Motif.  You’re right I think history will show that Yamaha was not wise in this respect.  The Motif was and still is the standard bearer for high end synthesis even after the release of the Montage.  The Montage does not have anything like the impact on musicians that the Motif/Mox does.  The only real hope of salvaging the Montage is to add back full blown Sampling and Sampler editing, and full blown Pattern Sequencing and Song Sequencing and “Lower the Price”.  There is still hope for Montage LOL.

All that talk that Yamaha gave us about they listened to the customer and the customer said that the onboard sequencing of the Motif was not important or useful.  My question is “What Customer?” When?  Were those customers in the United States?  When was the survey done?  Was there a survey on the Synth websites that we missed?  Was there a survey on Motifator?  If so can someone supply the results?  Who and where are these customers that wanted FM synthesis , motion sequencing and a big throbbing knob over a fully featured music production synthesizer?

If Cubase is supposed to be replacement for the full sequencing and pattern sequencing that was taken out of the Motif, then Cubase should at minimum be able to offer:

Pattern Sequencing and Pattern Sequence libraries
Phrase Sequencing and Phrase Sequence libraries
All of the Pattern and Phrase Jobs that were on the Motif and all while being tightly integrated with the Motif/Mox Remote Editor.

But to my knowledge cubase does not do that, at least not yet.

I’ll stack my Motif Pattern/Phrase sequencing workflow against a Montage + Vanilla Cubase Pattern/phrase sequencing workflow any day.

Really, WTF was Yamaha thinking......?  Steinberg to the rescue??????

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Posted on: May 14, 2018 @ 09:40 PM
zpink
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There at least used to be a MIDI plugin included in Cubase that was for looping. Can’t say if it’s still there since I only use elements these days, but can’t imagine they binned it.

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Posted on: May 15, 2018 @ 05:20 PM
lastmonk
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zpink - 14 May 2018 09:40 PM

There at least used to be a MIDI plugin included in Cubase that was for looping. Can’t say if it’s still there since I only use elements these days, but can’t imagine they binned it.

I’ve seen/read a few examples of how some looping can be done in Cubase.  One thing is for sure that in terms of Pattern Sequencing (Montage + Cubase) < Motif.

Fortunately for the Montage owners the MoxF is still available for sale.  And they’re reasonable in price.  Rather than screw around with Cubase the Montage owners would be better served just adding a MoxF to their rig or an after market Motif if they can find one.

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Posted on: May 15, 2018 @ 08:51 PM
zpink
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lastmonk - 15 May 2018 05:20 PM
zpink - 14 May 2018 09:40 PM

There at least used to be a MIDI plugin included in Cubase that was for looping. Can’t say if it’s still there since I only use elements these days, but can’t imagine they binned it.

I’ve seen/read a few examples of how some looping can be done in Cubase.  One thing is for sure that in terms of Pattern Sequencing (Montage + Cubase) < Motif.

Fortunately for the Montage owners the MoxF is still available for sale.  And they're reasonable in price.  Rather than screw around with Cubase the Montage owners would be better served just adding a MoxF to their rig or an after market Motif if they can find one.

I wasn’t arguing which option is the better one here.
I only answered the question, if there is an option to loop MIDI in Cubase without additional VSTs.
I’m a very happy MoXF user myself! :-)

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