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Viewing topic "Midi Output Channel question"

     
Posted on: April 08, 2018 @ 01:18 PM
katsikas
Total Posts:  76
Joined  04-09-2005
status: Experienced

I have my XF8 connected via midi cable to a TC Electronics Helicon VK, which is an “intelligent” harmonizer.  It uses the midi notes I play to generate vocal harmonies, and is a cool little machine.  UNfortunately, one of the limitations with the unit is that it has to be set to ONE midi receive channel globally (it doesn’t have an “omni mode").  I typically perform with each of my tunes in “song mode” to allow seamless switching of sounds within a song (e..g, piano to organ).  Unfortunately, when I press the “2” to play organ, I also am now outputting the XF8 on channel 2, which means the VK no longer is “hearing” what I am playing.  Is there a solution anyone can think of to make this work in song mode that would allow me to output midi externally on channel 1, while addressing channel 2 internally?

Thanks!
Steve

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Posted on: April 08, 2018 @ 03:12 PM
cmayhle
Total Posts:  3064
Joined  10-05-2011
status: Guru

Yes, move your SONG into MASTER MODE.

How familiar are you with MASTER MODE?

With your SONG in a MASTER location, you can address up to (8) Channels simultaneously, assigning active ZONES (Channels) internally or externally as you choose.

Until you move your SONG to MASTER MODE, you will only be able to address (1) MIDI Channel at a time, as you have discovered.

If you are not familiar with MASTER MODE (or even if you think you may be!), This Article is a great place to start.

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Posted on: April 08, 2018 @ 04:00 PM
5pinDIN
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Total Posts:  10243
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Legend

A MIDI Event Processor, such as…
http://www.midisolutions.com/prodevp.htm
...should allow incoming MIDI data on any channel to be remapped to one specific channel.

I’d suggest contacting MIDI Solutions to verify that the Event Processor will fulfill your needs.

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Posted on: April 09, 2018 @ 11:33 AM
cmayhle
Total Posts:  3064
Joined  10-05-2011
status: Guru

Just a follow-up for the OP.

5pinDIN has given you a hardware choice, which should be able to convert MIDI data being sent to your Helicon from any MIDI channel into a single channel of your choice.  Using this solution would allow you to stay in SONG (PATTERN) MODES, and will maintain access to all 16 available PARTS native to those MODES

5pinDIN and I had a PM discussion on exactly how MASTER MODE might possibly be utilized as a solution to your issue, and have reached a consensus.

As previously noted, MASTER MODE would allow (up to) (8) ZONES (PARTS) to be active, and each of those active ZONES could address the XF internally, a MIDI device externally, or both...as you might require.

Further, the (16) front panel PART buttons can be used to switch the internal or external transmission on or off, at will.  Beginning with OS update 1.40, buttons (1-8) can switch on/off the internal-addressed ZONE functions, and buttons (9-16) can be used to switch on/off the external-addressed ZONE functions.

How could this work for you?

It would seem that the harmonizer box wouldn’t really need to have its input sound switch every time you switch to a new VOICE on the XF.  It should, for example, get the notes required to produce harmonies from any VOICE to complete it’s functions (you will need to let us know it that is not the case).

So...you could set up your (up to) 8 PARTS in SONG MODE, associate it with a MASTER, and activate all (8) ZONES in your MASTER to address the PARTS internally.  Additionally, you would program a single ZONE to address its part externally, on the MIDI channel you set the Helicon up to receive...say the Piano on ZONE (1).

Now, you would always leave the external switch for the Piano ZONE active (front panel button 9 stays lit), while you select the ZONE you wish to play from the XF with buttons (1-8).

Let’s say you have an organ VOICE set up on ZONE (3).  You push the number (3) front panel button to light it up, and you play the organ from the XF.  The Helicon actually “hears” the part being played as a piano from ZONE (1) transmitting externally, and interacts with the vocal being fed to it.

This solution would limit the number of PARTS (ZONES) to (8).  It also depends on the ability of the Helicon to uniformly use a piano (or other) sound, to properly produce harmonies while you play other VOICES through the XF.

If this seems like a viable solution you would like to try, let us know, as there are additional specifics not covered here for set-up.

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Posted on: April 09, 2018 @ 02:08 PM
katsikas
Total Posts:  76
Joined  04-09-2005
status: Experienced

This is a fantastic solution.  I think I understand it.  I have never used Master Mode like this before, so it will be a new trick for this old dog.  I assume everything should be fine.  I don’t have any songs where I am addressing more than 8 different sounds within the song. Stay tuned (until I can get to the board and try it out!)

BTW, that you all were actually dialoguing on my behalf for a solution means a ton to me.  What a great resource you both are!

Steve

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Posted on: April 09, 2018 @ 06:36 PM
katsikas
Total Posts:  76
Joined  04-09-2005
status: Experienced

So the strategy of using master mode works fine when there is a single sound on a single midi channel, but when I have some sounds that are split or layered in song mode (for example, a piano layered with an organ both on channel 2), the zone seems to play all the sounds assigned to that as if it is disregarding the ranges used in song mode.  I have set the internal to Zone 1 = midi channel 1, zone 2 = midi channel 2, etc.. and ext is only checked for midi channel 1 (blank for the others).  So,k the helicon works fine no matter if I press 1, 2, or 3 (which is good), but I’ve lost my motif’s different sounds for 1,2, and 3 (they all sound like a combined muck of all 3 across the whole keyboard).

I must be missing something?
Steve

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Posted on: April 10, 2018 @ 08:27 PM
cmayhle
Total Posts:  3064
Joined  10-05-2011
status: Guru
katsikas - 09 April 2018 06:36 PM

So the strategy of using master mode works fine when there is a single sound on a single midi channel, but when I have some sounds that are split or layered in song mode (for example, a piano layered with an organ both on channel 2), the zone seems to play all the sounds assigned to that as if it is disregarding the ranges used in song mode.  I have set the internal to Zone 1 = midi channel 1, zone 2 = midi channel 2, etc.. and ext is only checked for midi channel 1 (blank for the others).  So,k the helicon works fine no matter if I press 1, 2, or 3 (which is good), but I’ve lost my motif’s different sounds for 1,2, and 3 (they all sound like a combined muck of all 3 across the whole keyboard).

I must be missing something?
Steve

It is hard for me to follow exactly what is going on, but just to back up a little:

1) Are you certain your machine has been updated to OS v1.40 or beyond(1.50 is the latest)?  The front panel buttons won’t affect the activation/deactivation of ZONES prior to that update.

2) In your use of SONG (MIXING) MODE, when you pushed a panel button to change the PART, the PART you had been playing was automatically cancelled.  This won’t happen in MASTER MODE.  Any ZONES activated will continue to play until they are turned off, on the proper EDIT page, or on properly functioning front panel buttons.  That means for each new ZONE that gets switched on, you must switch the previous ZONE off to silence it.

These may be rudimentary questions, but best to just get them out of the way.

Whatever NOTE LIMITS were in place on individual PARTS, when you associated the SONG with the MASTER, should come in intact.

Unfortunately, I am responding in an academic fashion, as I do not currently have access to my XF to run empirical tests.

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Posted on: April 10, 2018 @ 10:29 PM
5pinDIN
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Total Posts:  10243
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Legend
katsikas - 09 April 2018 06:36 PM

[...] I must be missing something?
Steve

Yes, you’re apparently missing a relatively minor thing.

Basically what cmayhle last posted is correct. I have one detail to add to it…

Press the [PERFORMANCE CONTROL] button, presuming you have OS 1.40 or 1.50 installed. If not, you should update to 1.50 (see below).

A Supplementary Manual PDF comes with the 1.50 download. If it’s not handy, you can get it here:
http://download.yamaha.com/file/53105

See New function of the [PERFORMANCE CONTROL] button in the Master mode on page 7.

------------------------
For anyone who needs to update their XF’s OS…

XF OS Version 1.50 download:
http://download.yamaha.com/file/61410

File with 32 new Voices and 8 Performances that use new effects in OS V1.50:
http://download.yamaha.com/file/61405

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