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Viewing topic "moXF6 CP1 sound problem"

   
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Posted on: December 13, 2017 @ 03:18 AM
stangan
Total Posts:  8
Joined  12-13-2017
status: Newcomer

Greetings.

I loaded the CP1 sample library to the flash board of my moXF6.

The sounds are there; however, if I sustain a note I get very strange additional sounds coming in.

Like high frequency feedback with delay.

Tried reformatting the flash and loading again; same problem.

Any suggestions?

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: December 13, 2017 @ 05:35 AM
5pinDIN
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Joined  09-16-2010
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Welcome to the forum.

Could you tell us with which Voice, and note, or range of notes, you’re noticing these sounds on?

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: December 13, 2017 @ 06:12 AM
stangan
Total Posts:  8
Joined  12-13-2017
status: Newcomer

Thank you.

It is happening on all CP Piano voices and all notes over the entire range of the keyboard, if they are held down.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: December 13, 2017 @ 06:24 AM
5pinDIN
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stangan - 13 December 2017 06:12 AM

It is happening on all CP Piano voices and all notes over the entire range of the keyboard, if they are held down.

I have the CP1 library loaded to my Motif XF. I notice no problems such as what you’ve described.

Let’s try to determine what you’re experiencing…
Disconnect any MIDI, USB, and audio cables, and any pedals, from the MOXF. Plug headphones into the MOXF’s PHONES jack. Play the MOXF. Do you still hear the extraneous sounds?

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: December 22, 2017 @ 02:36 PM
nbadesign
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Did you have any similar problem with some other sound library?
If yes, than maybe problem could be your flash memory. You should try to reinstall it
since maybe it has bad contact.
I have installed the same sound library long time ago and it still works without any issues.

Alex

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: January 05, 2018 @ 03:32 AM
stangan
Total Posts:  8
Joined  12-13-2017
status: Newcomer
nbadesign - 22 December 2017 02:36 PM

Did you have any similar problem with some other sound library?
If yes, than maybe problem could be your flash memory. You should try to reinstall it
since maybe it has bad contact.
I have installed the same sound library long time ago and it still works without any issues.

Alex

I am using Inspiration in a Flash, EDM and Twisted Tools libraries with no issues.

I tried reinstalling the flash memory as you suggested, unfortunately this did not solve the problem.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: January 05, 2018 @ 04:08 AM
5pinDIN
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You didn’t reply to my previous post. If you are serious about investigating the issue, you might want to do that.

Again…
Disconnect any MIDI, USB, and audio cables, and any pedals, from the MOXF. Plug headphones into the MOXF’s PHONES jack. Play the MOXF. Do you still hear the extraneous sounds?

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: January 08, 2018 @ 05:24 AM
stangan
Total Posts:  8
Joined  12-13-2017
status: Newcomer
5pinDIN - 05 January 2018 04:08 AM

You didn’t reply to my previous post. If you are serious about investigating the issue, you might want to do that.

Again…
Disconnect any MIDI, USB, and audio cables, and any pedals, from the MOXF. Plug headphones into the MOXF’s PHONES jack. Play the MOXF. Do you still hear the extraneous sounds?

I have made an audio recording in order to elucidate [attached].

This was done via the phones jack with all other cables disconnected.

File Attachments
moXF-CF Grand.MP3  (File Size: 1259KB - Downloads: 37)
  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: January 08, 2018 @ 01:40 PM
5pinDIN
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stangan - 08 January 2018 05:24 AM

I have made an audio recording in order to elucidate [attached].

This was done via the phones jack with all other cables disconnected.

Thanks for posting the recording. The extremely obvious digital audio artifacts are certainly not normally present with the CP1 piano samples.

Does the problem vary with key velocity, or does it remain the same? That is, are the artifacts present if a note is struck pianissimo, fortissimo, or anything in between?

Exactly what did you do when you “reinstalled” the flash module?

Did you remove it and remount as per the instructions on pages 71-72 of the MOXF Owner’s Manual (especially step 4-2)?

(Tightening of the two mounting screws in step 4-3 should be done evenly, in stages.)

Did you then delete all the CP1 Piano Waveforms from the flash module and reinstall the CP1 library?

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: January 10, 2018 @ 01:12 AM
stangan
Total Posts:  8
Joined  12-13-2017
status: Newcomer

Thanks for posting the recording. The extremely obvious digital audio artifacts are certainly not normally present with the CP1 piano samples.

Does the problem vary with key velocity, or does it remain the same? That is, are the artifacts present if a note is struck pianissimo, fortissimo, or anything in between?

Exactly what did you do when you “reinstalled” the flash module?

Did you remove it and remount as per the instructions on pages 71-72 of the MOXF Owner’s Manual (especially step 4-2)?

(Tightening of the two mounting screws in step 4-3 should be done evenly, in stages.)

Did you then delete all the CP1 Piano Waveforms from the flash module and reinstall the CP1 library?

Thanks for the feedback.

Yes, it does vary with key velocity.

I deleted the 15 CP1 waveforms and loaded again from USB as suggested; still no joy.

When deleting the waveforms I noticed that the artefact was present even on these unprocessed sounds.

Logic would imply that if the flash memory itself was faulty none of the sample libraries would work, which is not the case. It appears to have been installed correctly.

My first thought was that the CP1 .X3A file was somehow corrupted so I downloaded it again and loaded the new version after formatting, which is the version on the recording.

Any further ideas?

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: January 10, 2018 @ 05:43 AM
5pinDIN
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stangan - 10 January 2018 01:12 AM

Thanks for the feedback.

You’re welcome.

 

stangan -

Logic would imply that if the flash memory itself was faulty none of the sample libraries would work, which is not the case. It appears to have been installed correctly.

That depends on whether the identical area of memory is being used for each of the libraries. Memory arrangement of the flash module chips is in 128 Kbyte blocks. It’s possible for some areas of memory to work correctly and others not.

The flash module’s connector has 120 pins, and each of the NOR flash chips (eight on an FL1024M) has 56 pins or 64 solder balls (depending on the chip package type). That leaves a lot of possibilities for a bad connection or poor solder joint.

While such problems have sometimes occurred, I’m not suggesting that there’s a definite problem related to the flash module, just that it’s a possibility. By the way, which manufacturer made yours - Yamaha or Mutec?

 

stangan -

My first thought was that the CP1 .X3A file was somehow corrupted so I downloaded it again and loaded the new version after formatting, which is the version on the recording.

Any further ideas?

Assuming that the flash module and its interface circuit in the MOXF are blameless…

I’d suggest trying a different USB drive. There are known compatibility issues with some of them. See…
https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/3/955613/en20171213MOXF68.pdf
...but even if yours is listed, you might still try another.

You also might try another download of the CPI Piano itself. Although I haven’t used it recently, in the past this location has been reliable:
http://download.yamaha.com/file/60662

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: January 12, 2018 @ 02:52 AM
stangan
Total Posts:  8
Joined  12-13-2017
status: Newcomer

Very interesting, thanks 5pinDIN.

The flash module is the Mutec FMC-06 1024MB.

The first thing I tried was to load the new CP1 file from the link you gave without deleting the old waveforms. If I could force the waveforms to some new memory blocks I would know if some areas of the flash were faulty.

However, even though there was 192.2MB of spare memory I got the ‘sample full’ message.

I then deleted all the Twisted Tools waveforms just to make sure; same ‘sample full’ message.

Are you prevented from loading the same waveform twice?

I have already loaded the expansion libraries in different orders, before and after formatting, so that should have put the CP1 waveforms in different locations anyway?

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: January 12, 2018 @ 06:34 AM
5pinDIN
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There’s nothing to prevent loading of Waveforms more than once, assuming sufficient room is available. Besides memory capacity, there are two other limits to the amount of data that can be loaded to a flash module:
1) No more than 2048 Waveforms
2) No more than 8192 KeyBanks

You mentioned using Inspiration in a Flash, EDM, and Twisted Tools libraries. They and the CP1 have the following approximate characteristics (as determined with the Melas Motif Waveform Editor demo):

Library  Size(MB)  Wforms  KeyBanks
-----------------------------------
IiaF      464       354        23
EDM        54         9       115
T
.T.      126        42       377
CP1       119        15      2048
-----------------------------------
Totals    763       420      2563

So loading all those libraries shouldn’t cause any of the flash module maximum limits to be exceeded.

One discrepancy I noticed was that with a formatted 1024MB module and all of the above loaded to it, there should be about 259MB free, but you indicated about 192MB. (Are you aware of the flash “Optimize” function? See page 159 of the MOXF Reference Manual.)

Before we delve further into this, which OS version is installed on your MOXF?
Press [UTILITY]
Press [JOB]
Read the displayed firmware (Firm:).
Let us know what you find.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: January 16, 2018 @ 04:42 AM
stangan
Total Posts:  8
Joined  12-13-2017
status: Newcomer

Firm: V1.01.0

I did press Optimise before trying to add the CP1 waveforms; it made no difference to the amount of free memory.

More recently I tried deleting all the CP1 waveforms and reloading the file from the link you gave using a different USB drive; still no solution.

I then removed the flash module and reinstalled for a third time.

The instructions in the Owner’s Manual appear to be different to how the Mutec is installed. 

I have to insert two screws first [which have female ends], then the module, then tighten the module with two Philips screws, not large screws as shown in 4-3.

I cannot account for the discrepancy in available memory that you noted.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: January 16, 2018 @ 05:24 AM
5pinDIN
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stangan - 16 January 2018 04:42 AM

Firm: V1.01.0

Your MOXF has a very early version of the OS. It had significant problems. Before going any further, please update the OS. The most recent version is 1.12.

https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/software/0/822670/moxf_v112.zip

Please read and follow the documentation included in the ZIP file.

Note that as early as version 1.02 “- Solved a problem that prevented sounds being produced correctly when sample data had been read into an FL512M or FL1024M Flash Memory Expansion Module (sold separately)”.

After updating the OS, try the CP1 Piano again, and let us know how it sounds.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: January 18, 2018 @ 02:28 AM
stangan
Total Posts:  8
Joined  12-13-2017
status: Newcomer

Success!

It was the OS.

Many thanks for your help in solving this problem 5pinDIN.

  [ Ignore ]  


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