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Viewing topic "Stuck notes - Motif Rack XS - FL Studio - Logic Pro"

     
Posted on: January 07, 2017 @ 06:58 AM
motifated-
Total Posts:  26
Joined  12-16-2009
status: Regular

Hello.

My current setup is Windows 10 Home on a custom-built PC, Scarlett 18i8 2nd gen (software version 2.1.5), Motif Rack XS (connected to the Scarlett via a single MIDI cable), and Akai MPK 225 (connected only to the PC via USB). My current DAW is FL Studio 12.4.1.

I’m having a problem which often (not always but extremely frequently) causes notes from the Motif to get stuck (for lack of a better word). It doesn’t happen when I’m playing the keyboard, only during playback of recorded midi data. It sort of sounds as if I’m using a sustain pedal, but not on the entire chord, just on single (or a bunch of) notes. Stuck notes sometimes occur at the end of a sequence, sometimes also in the middle.

When playback is stopped the sound continues ringing until it dies down completely or if I press the stop button in the DAW a bunch of times to stop all audio.

Please note I do not have a sustain pedal connected anywhere. I swapped MIDI cables but it didn’t help. Tried short MIDI cables too, but to no effect.

I tried reinstalling all software, including drivers, but that didn’t help. Updating the firmware on the Motif Rack to the latest version (1.04.0) didn’t resolve anything either. I tried messing around with various settings (such as Local Control, etc.) on the device and inside the DAW(s). Nothing helped. Now I reset the Motif back its factory setting.

After everything failed, I disconnected the MIDI cable from the device (also from the Scarlett interface) and connected the Motif to the computer via USB instead (changed the connection method from MIDI to USB on the Motif as well). That’s what solved the problem. The problem only occurs when using the Motif Rack connected to the computer via MIDI cables. No such problems with USB connection. No software instruments are effected either. However, I prefer to use the MIDI connection in my setup for a number of reasons, so hopefully you could help me solve this.

Last but not least, I had a similar problem a few years ago on a totally different machine (Macbook Pro 2011), running a different operating system (Mac OS), using a different interface (Digidesign Mbox 2), a different DAW (Logic Pro 9 and Logic Pro X ... I don’t remember Pro Tools 8 LE being effected though I could be wrong) and using a different midi keyboard (M Audio Keystation 61es - also connected to the computer via USB).

At that time I thought it might have been a Logic problem (or Mbox’s problem), but apparently it was not, because now I’m using a different DAW and a new interface.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Mike

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Posted on: January 07, 2017 @ 08:12 AM
meatballfulton
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The cause of the problem is that Note Off messgaes are getting lost. Either they are getting dropped before being sent to the Motif or the Motif itself is incorrectly ignoring it.

How dense is the MIDI stream being sent to the Motif? Using all 16 channels, lots of controller data as well as notes, etc.? Does FL have an event list where you can see the actual MIDI messages being sent?  Too much data can overwhelm some devices.  When playing from a keyboard, the amount of MIDI data is trivial comapred to dense sequences.

Try using the Motif’s own USB for MIDI rather than the MIDI cable to your Scarlett and see if that helps.

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Posted on: January 07, 2017 @ 08:25 AM
motifated-
Total Posts:  26
Joined  12-16-2009
status: Regular
meatballfulton - 07 January 2017 08:12 AM

The cause of the problem is that Note Off messgaes are getting lost. Either they are getting dropped before being sent to the Motif or the Motif itself is incorrectly ignoring it.

How dense is the MIDI stream being sent to the Motif? Using all 16 channels, lots of controller data as well as notes, etc.? Does FL have an event list where you can see the actual MIDI messages being sent?  Too much data can overwhelm some devices.  When playing from a keyboard, the amount of MIDI data is trivial comapred to dense sequences.

Try using the Motif’s own USB for MIDI rather than the MIDI cable to your Scarlett and see if that helps.

Hi, Meatballfulton. Thank you for the response.

As I said in my first post, I did try the USB connection which caused no problems, no notes were getting stuck. However, it’s important to me to use standard MIDI cables instead of USB with the Motif Rack.

motifated- - 07 January 2017 06:58 AM

After everything failed, I disconnected the MIDI cable from the device (also from the Scarlett interface) and connected the Motif to the computer via USB instead (changed the connection method from MIDI to USB on the Motif as well). That’s what solved the problem.

The problem occurs when using a single voice (let’s say Grand Piano) as well, not only in multi mode, with most basic chords played with 4-5 fingers at a time. Even if I record just one note. So not that dense.

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Posted on: January 07, 2017 @ 10:10 AM
philwoodmusic
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Hi Mike,

These problematic notes, are they randomly dispersed around your track, or do they show up at specific points and / or with any regularity?

For example, near the end of ‘musical blocks’ of 4 measures, or 8, or 16 measures and so on?

Can you see any patterns in them?

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Posted on: January 07, 2017 @ 11:09 PM
Stephen Kay
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Joined  01-13-2011
status: Pro

Given that it works fine with USB, I would tend to think there is nothing wrong with the MIDI data itself. It points at a problem with the connection (the MIDI ports). You said you tried different cables, but it could honestly still be a bad cable. Make sure you are using some new ones that are high quality, not cheapo ones. If that is not the case, it could be an intermittent connection problem with the ports themselves, either on the rack itself or whatever is on the other end of the cables. Note-off messages are getting lost somewhere, and since it doesn’t happen with USB, then it must be happening in the pathway the data takes when you use the MIDI ports.

- Stephen Kay
KARMA Developer :: karma-lab.com
Check out the KARMA Motif Software for 6 Yamaha synths!

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Posted on: January 08, 2017 @ 02:21 AM
5pinDIN
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A MIDI data feedback loop is one possible cause of the problem described.

To help diagnose the issue…
If the Rack XS MIDI-Out is connected, try disconnecting that cable, leaving only the Rack’s MIDI-In connected when playing sequenced MIDI data. Does that eliminate the hanging notes?

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Posted on: January 10, 2017 @ 04:51 AM
motifated-
Total Posts:  26
Joined  12-16-2009
status: Regular

Thank you all for replying. Here’s a couple of additional things:

1 - There’s only one midi cable connected to the Rack: Scarlett MIDI OUT to Motif Rack’s MIDI IN.

2 - I tried different midi cables, also different lengths. Didn’t solve the problem.

3 - I also have an MPC 1000 which I connected to the Motif Rack in the same way the Rack is normally connected to the computer. There’s no problem with hanging notes when midi data is sent out of the MPC.

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Posted on: January 10, 2017 @ 05:26 AM
5pinDIN
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motifated- - 10 January 2017 04:51 AM

Thank you all for replying. Here’s a couple of additional things:

1 - There’s only one midi cable connected to the Rack: Scarlett MIDI OUT to Motif Rack’s MIDI IN.

Thanks for clarifying that. It wasn’t previously clear, due to mention of “cables”, such as “The problem only occurs when using the Motif Rack connected to the computer via MIDI cables.”

 

motifated- -

3 - I also have an MPC 1000 which I connected to the Motif Rack in the same way the Rack is normally connected to the computer. There’s no problem with hanging notes when midi data is sent out of the MPC.

Is the data from the MPC equivalent to that from the computer?
Same type of messages, same data density?

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Posted on: January 10, 2017 @ 06:45 AM
meatballfulton
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motifated- - 07 January 2017 08:25 AM

it’s important to me to use standard MIDI cables instead of USB with the Motif Rack.

Can you explain why, since you know this solves your problem?

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Posted on: January 11, 2017 @ 06:03 AM
motifated-
Total Posts:  26
Joined  12-16-2009
status: Regular
5pinDIN - 10 January 2017 05:26 AM

3 - I also have an MPC 1000 which I connected to the Motif Rack in the same way the Rack is normally connected to the computer. There’s no problem with hanging notes when midi data is sent out of the MPC.

Is the data from the MPC equivalent to that from the computer?
Same type of messages, same data density?

Yes. I worked with the MPC quite extensively before switching to software sequencers, and no matter what density of midi data (I usually worked with all 16 multis at a time; using the same midi cables, FYI), I never experienced any hanging notes when playing my sequences back from the MPC.

As mentioned before, I first experienced the problem when I connected the Motif Rack to my laptop using Logic Pro 9 and thought it was Logic’s problem. Switched between the computer (via Mbox2) and the MPC to compare—with the very same MIDI sequence.

On Logic Pro X (latest version from the App Store) and FL Studio 12.4.1 the issue persists, no matter how dense (or simple) the data is. It just happens randomly. However, from what I’ve observed, it tends to happen more frequently when the composition is denser (not very dense, just basic chord progressions; no more than 5 notes playing at a time). Also, when shorter chords/notes follow in “rapid” progression (or when playback is stopped in the middle of a sequence).

I’ve just clicked in a quick chord progression into FL’s piano roll and recorded audio from the Motif (at 100 bpm; using Voice Mode, Full Concert Grand - first patch at default settings; MP3 attached). It’s very much right on the grid and all notes are at the same velocity—for simplicity; it doesn’t seem to make any difference since I often deal with the issue with “real” projects. FYI, most of my compositions are rather simple, there’s no dense midi data sent to the Motif).

Anyway, the chord progression was looped twice and I’ve noticed another thing—sometimes individual notes are not triggered in a sequence, as if they overlap (although they do not).

In the screenshot below this happens on the 5th bar of the melody (sometimes also - randomly - in other parts of the loop). You can hear that on bar 5 of the second loop (bar 13 overall). It’s the same chord as on bar 5 but some of the notes are not triggered. You can also hear a random note hanging on bar 10. Also when I stop playback on bar 17. None of this ever happens when using the USB connection.

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Posted on: January 11, 2017 @ 08:05 AM
5pinDIN
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motifated- - 11 January 2017 06:03 AM
5pinDIN - 10 January 2017 05:26 AM

3 - I also have an MPC 1000 which I connected to the Motif Rack in the same way the Rack is normally connected to the computer. There’s no problem with hanging notes when midi data is sent out of the MPC.

Is the data from the MPC equivalent to that from the computer?
Same type of messages, same data density?

Yes. I worked with the MPC quite extensively before switching to software sequencers, and no matter what density of midi data (I usually worked with all 16 multis at a time; using the same midi cables, FYI), I never experienced any hanging notes when playing my sequences back from the MPC.

Since a hardware sequencer works correctly, this would seem to suggest that the problem is with the way the DAWs are configured to send MIDI data. Since I don’t use FL, I can’t make relevant suggestions about its use.

However, could you explain what you’re doing that requires use of 5-pin-DIN MIDI? There might be a way to accommodate that and still use the USB connection.

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Posted on: January 12, 2017 @ 05:55 AM
motifated-
Total Posts:  26
Joined  12-16-2009
status: Regular

Honestly, it’s mostly about the lack of USB ports and I don’t want to use any USB hubs. Besides, if both the Motif and my interface are capable of using 5 pin cables, why shouldn’t I be able to use them? Don’t mean to be rude by saying it this way, but it kind of annoys me that I’m experiencing problems with such basic things. If it helps, here’s a screenshot of my MIDI settings in FL Studio.

Image Attachments
midi settings.PNG
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Posted on: January 12, 2017 @ 06:38 AM
meatballfulton
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Motifated,

Thanks for the answer. I totally understand the port issue...I’m maxxed out on my Mac and have to swap peripherals at time. Yuck.

Since tracking down the issue has taken so much time if it was me, I would have bitten the bullet and reverted to USB MIDI a long time ago.

Good luck!

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Posted on: January 12, 2017 @ 07:43 AM
5pinDIN
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motifated- - 12 January 2017 05:55 AM

[...] Besides, if both the Motif and my interface are capable of using 5 pin cables, why shouldn’t I be able to use them? Don’t mean to be rude by saying it this way, but it kind of annoys me that I’m experiencing problems with such basic things. If it helps, here’s a screenshot of my MIDI settings in FL Studio.

You should be able to use 5-pin MIDI connections, but it doesn’t seem the Rack XS is what’s preventing that. I don’t see anything helpful in the FL Studio screen shot - useful settings might be for data pacing or buffering. However, this could be an issue with the MIDI interface. I’d suggest that you contact Focusrite and provide the same information you’ve posted here. They may have knowledge of what you’re experiencing.

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