I have searched this Motifator and the web for solutions, tried many things still with no fix.
Why would Yamaha design something capable of causing me such major grief? It’s all in the Machine!

But it did work previously, everything worked. I bought it new. I did not remove the mLan board after initial install, until I awoke it from it’s long hiatus 2 days ago, and this problem started.
I have owned this Motif XS6 since new 4 years ago, so far rarely used it, and during this time has stayed unmoved in my home studio. Previous to that had the Rack XS, sold and upgraded to these keys.

No amount of Yamaha FW Driver PC installs will acknowledge an mLAN16E2 device connected. All Motif settings set to FW and mLan. So mLan board appears to be dead.

Disconnect PC, removed cable from mLan. Set Motif XS to Stand Alone in Menu.

1). Freezes on boot at the black & white Yamaha Logo screen, unless I insert L&R;Stereo out cables, then it will boot through the regular animated multi colored loading screen.
Then NO sound. Every other Menu navigation works.

2). If I boot into Test (holding Rec and Remote) it will freeze on same black & white Yamaha Logo screen after Test Mode text goes.

3). Then restart after Test Mode fail, frozen at this Message ‘Please keep power on’.
If I Remove mLan board, do Test ALL OK.

4). Eventually I turn power off from infinite waiting, then press start as normal and will load into normal 001 Motif XSperience performance and regular menu operation...but still NO SOUND.

5). I removed 2 x 512MB Motifator purchased DIMMS and remove mLan board. Then it Will boot and menu navigation and audio out speakers sounds OK as designed to.

6). Re-install the DIMMs, but not mLan, Will boot and menu navigation and audio out speakers sounds OK as designed to.

7). Then re-install mLan board (4th time), this time after thoroughly cleaning with air pressure electronic component cleaner. No difference, same result as 1). above - No sound and No MIDI received on any external device.

8). With mLan board it Freezes on the Yamaha Logo screen with USB stick inserted, with pressing Curser up and Utility and Power, and will freeze without pressing them when USB is inserted on normal start. I was trying to load V1.60 Operating System update.

9). Only way to get it to work now is without mLan board and booting through Test Mode. Then this method stopped working.

10). Update. All above senarios now pointless. With both DIMM and mLan removed, now it won’t boot, not even into Test Mode. Useless.

I fear my mLan is dead, and Motif XS defective. After very little use.
I was going to fix the 10 dead keys myself, if I got it working properly.

Just when I start to permanently allocate more time to write music, I cannot use my Motif XS as I planned to.
Also bought 2 DVD’s to help: Master Class, and World Of Motif XS.

So disappointed. I have recommended Yamaha to other musicians because of their sound. But that could end. Maybe it’s time now to forget about this and owning future Yamaha products?
I cannot even sell this Motif XS as it is. Worthless.

I’m not naive when it comes to tech and electronics, at 55 yrs old I’m hanging in with it, have a grunty speced out music PC, and a 7 yr old Dell Laptop used daily which has not let me down. With about $3,200 wasted, my Motif Experience is far from a good one, and will not be good for Yamaha either, depending on this outcome. I need something that works.

Oh I could have take it to a Yamaha Service Centre out of warranty, and get the same diagnostic… mLan dead, buy another. Faulty board, buy another. Great, more money wasted. Why should it break when it’s hardly been touched? Not acceptable. Yeah I rarely touched it, until I tried to fix it with advice given to others here in Motifator. Was it really designed to keep Service Technicians from starving?

Most corporations after warranty (except Samsung) would tell the customer they caused the problem and walk away, but I’m hoping Yamaha today don’t just rely on a past reputation, or it’s goodnight to my Yamaha experience.

Unless there is some miracle from someone helpful here....?

Click thumbnail to see full-size image

I’ve been wary of replying to your post. I’ll try to help, but I don’t have any ties to Yamaha, and my only connection with Motifator is that I’m a forum member. If you follow any suggestions I make, it should be done with the understanding that you take full responsibility for the outcome.

The flash ROM in your XS6 may be corrupted. If so, it might be possible to recover from that situation.
See http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/454253/

If you’re successful in getting the XS6 to fully boot, it might be prudent to post again before doing anything more with DIMMs or the mLAN16E2. If you have no success after attempting OS reinstallation, I’d suggest contacting Yamaha directly.

By the way, Motifator supports certain Yamaha products, but it is not a Yamaha-run site. There are currently no Yamaha employees participating here.

Farout! There is sound, with OS 1.60.1 the patient is alive!!

Powered on the XS while holding down the [Cursor UP] and [UTILITY] buttons...then the prompt came searching for USB. Had it ready and loaded OS 1.60.1

Thank you so much 5pinDIN, you’re an inspiration :)

So far no DIMM or mLan board installed.

What exactly caused this I’m not sure, if it was the DIMM or mLan, removing them or an update previously that didn’t connect with the mLan.
Since it seemed at first it was a non recognition of mLan board after an update some time ago.

It’s been a long night, will return in a few hours. Thanks again :))

You’re welcome - I’m glad that your XS6 is functioning again.

During the boot sequence various components of the XS are accessed. A problem with either the DIMMs or the mLAN can cause the boot to “hang”. I’ve never heard of even incompatible DIMMs causing problems with the firmware, so it’s likely safe to reinstall the DIMMs, and then run the two Test Mode DIMM tests (#18 and #19).

See http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/index.php/viewthread/450533/P30/

If the DIMM installation and testing go well, we can discuss mLAN16E2 issues.

Yes I have installed 2 x 512 DIMM only, and completed tests #18 & #19.
Size came up to 1073741824. OMG! This is exactly what it supposed to be, yaaay!

Test #19 takes forever so I went out, then came back and it was completed, I think, well back to the original #19 screen before the test, does not display any outcome of test, just says DIMM Full OK

Is that acceptable for DIMM test completion?

Click thumbnail to see full-size image

Zeussa - 21 September 2015 02:50 AM

Yes I have installed 2 x 512 DIMM only, and completed tests #18 & #19.
Size came up to 1073741824. OMG! This is exactly what it supposed to be, yaaay!

Indeed, 1 GB.

 

Zeussa -

Test #19 takes forever so I went out, then came back and it was completed, I think, well back to the original #19 screen before the test, does not display any outcome of test, just says DIMM Full OK

Is that acceptable for DIMM test completion?

Test #19 takes so long because it’s very thorough. Yes, OK means there were no problems detected.

The other possibility would have been NG, indicating No Good, which fortunately was not the case.

I love progress.  :-)

---------------

As to the mLAN - hopefully it’s not “dead"/damaged (although it might be), just “sleeping”.

If you feel so inclined, remount the mLAN16E2 and see if the XS boots. If not, remove it and contact Yamaha.

Presuming the XS boots, in order to use the Yamaha Steinberg FW Driver, the mLAN16E2 firmware needs to be updated. If you haven’t done so already, download the IEEE1394 Firmware Updater Ver. 1.07 (don’t use any other version) appropriate for your computer and follow the procedure in the Update Guide PDF.

Please let us know how things proceed.

Yes agree, thus far is cool bananas, thanks for helping… but now it gets hot and sweaty!!

And the mLAN16E2 is where it gets weird:
Motif not connected to PC.
Installed mLan and Motif boots, but no sound from Motif out through speakers or headphones in it’s default settings.

I suspect this isn’t normal, and all the following text in orange is a surreal exercise in wishful thinking:

It’s already set to Standalone, is there any other internal routing, or do I need to update the mLan firmware in order to get sound through speakers or headphones?

This is where I started out initially, and the brainmelt begins.
I will try updating the mLan firmware, in Standalone, and set to PC.
I’ve disconnected my other firewire Focusrite Audio interface.

So I don’t need to install Yamaha Steinberg FW Driver first, correct?
I gather we need to update the firmware first in order for the driver to say hello.

Motif is connected via Firewire to PC and Motif turned off.
I start Windows7 64 bit. Then start Motif.
Nothing jumps in windows Devices list, PC does not acknowledge a strange FW device just powered on.

Now I double click IEEE1394 Firmware Updater and get this message:
‘Your system doesn’t satisfy the system requirements for the update,
please make sure the requirements are satisfied, the start the programme again’
Run as Administrator, same.
Same happens both times when Motif set to Standalone or with PC.
Would this mean the updater isn’t detecting any active firewire device?

Ok so I start Motif this time before PC, PC does a weird freeze halfway through boot (only once), I restart PC, this time boots, try install again, same message as above.

I try this 6 times under different settings, Standalone or PC, Start before PC, and after PC - same message as above.

I use either mLAN16E2 FW outputs, same nothing.

Today it shouldn’t have to be this hard getting something connected.

Using a VIA 1394 OHCI Compliant Host Controller, I bought previously for this Motif.
There is also another unused IEEE 1394 default connector built into the motherboard, I also tried this in scenarios as above.

I set Motif back to Standalone mode and pull the mLAN16E2, restart and I have sound and go crazy with drawbar organ.[/color]

Do I need anything else installed first, before firmware?

Yamaha Downloads states the following under this firmware update, but I suspect they don’t apply to mLAN16E2:

Related Download

You also need to download these files.

[n12/n8] Sweet Spot Data Manager V2.0.0 for Windows 7 / Vista / XP
n8/n12 Firmware Updater V1.03 for Windows 7 / Vista / XP
[Yamaha Steinberg FW Driver + n Extension] TOOLS for n V2.7.3 for Windows 8.1/ 8 / 7
[Yamaha Steinberg FW Driver + n Extension] TOOLS for n V2.7.3 for Windows 8.1 / 8 / 7 (64bit)

I suggest that you try the following…
1) Uninstall any mLAN Drivers or mLAN Tools on your computer.
2) Install the appropriate Yamaha Steinberg FW Driver for your computer.
3) Turn on the XS.
4) Reboot the computer.
5) Run the mLAN firmware updater as per the User Guide.

See New “IEEE1394 Driver” parameter on page 5 of:
http://download.yamaha.com/file/8926

If no joy, and based on your “Installed mLan and Motif boots, but no sound from Motif out through speakers or headphones in it’s default settings.”, you should probably contact Yamaha support. It’s possible the flash memory in the mLAN16E2 is corrupted, or there’s some other fault.

By the way, do you have the XS Service Manual?

Thanks for your suggestions. I tried that procedure.

I installed the Yamaha Firefire Driver, reboot. With Motif set to FW, then attempt installation of Firmware. There is no ‘Next’ button, just Finsh and Refresh. It cannot find an mLan device. Still no analogue sound out with mLan inserted. Removed and my Motif is OK.

Has to be a failed mLAN16E2 board, or mLan connector inside Motif.

I’ve given up on the mLan board.
No service manual, just user manual and Data List.

My main concern now is the 10 dead keys, which appear to be random below the middle F#

I spent today taking all keys off and cleaning carefully under the rubber pads.
Gently vacuumed dust with a micro brush, and wiped contacts with alcohol.
Put keys back on and tested. Nothing has changed. Same keys still dead.
All other keys have their correct velocity.

So tomorrow I will remove the keys again and try these steps:
1. Check the rubber pads for split or non extended nipples.
2. Use magnifying glass to check circuit board discontinuity.
3. Clean underside of rubber pads.
4. Use a graphite pencil on dead contacts.

Any other suggestions that might be the problem for dead keys and I’ll give it a try while my limitless patience remains on tap :))

Click thumbnail to see full-size image

Zeussa - 23 September 2015 10:14 AM

Thanks for your suggestions. I tried that procedure.

I installed the Yamaha Firefire Driver, reboot. With Motif set to FW, then attempt installation of Firmware. There is no ‘Next’ button, just Finsh and Refresh. It cannot find an mLan device. Still no analogue sound out with mLan inserted. Removed and my Motif is OK.

Has to be a failed mLAN16E2 board, or mLan connector inside Motif.

I’ve given up on the mLan board.
No service manual, just user manual and Data List.

I can provide more information, but we can get back to the mLAN later if your patience holds up.

 

Zeussa - 23 September 2015 10:14 AM

My main concern now is the 10 dead keys.

I spent today taking all keys off and cleaning carefully under the rubber pads.
Gently vacuumed dust with a micro brush, and wiped contacts with alcohol.
Put keys back on and tested. Nothing has changed. Same keys still dead.
All other keys have their correct velocity.

So tomorrow I will remove the keys again and try these steps:
1. Check the rubber for split or non extended nipples.
2. use magnifying glass to check circuit board discontinuity.
3. Use a graphite pencil on dead contacts.

Any other suggestions that might be the problem for dead keys and I’ll give it a try while my limitless patience remains on tap :))

You haven’t said, but it appears from the picture that they’re within the range of C#4 to C5. If you can specifically name which 10, I can probably help pin down the cause.

Also see my most recent post in this thread:
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/475543/P15/

OK great, if I manage to get the dead keys sorted I’ll get back to the mLan.

My previous pic was just for the record that I had it open, not the effected area. I was supremely optimistic my hours of cleaning would work, fooled myself again haha.

Tomorrow I will take close-up pics.

Attached pic are the specific dead keys.

Thanks for your link, very interesting trick with the foiled swabs, I’ll give it a gentle shot in 8 hours time.

Click thumbnail to see full-size image

Based on your marked picture, the following keys have problems:
D#1, E1
C#2, D2
G#2, A2, A#2, B2, C3
F3, F#3

If those are indeed the only dead keys, then there’s no commonality that would indicate anything related to key matrix decoding - the problems are at each individual key location.

However, please verify that G2 is functional, because if it’s dead along with
G#2/A2/A#2/B2/C3, that group of six keys shares a line. In that case there could be a different type of failure than at the remaining three two-key groups.

Checked G2 and fully function, with velocity.
OK that’s a relief, so it may not be deeper than local physical area, hopefully.

I will have time in a few hours to re-open and complete foiled swabs tests and closer inspection.

OK I finished with the foil swab tests.
None of the dead keys contacts responded, even after a few tries.
Other adjacent keys with no problems did respond with a note sound using same foil swab test.
The underneath of the rubber contacts looks consistent, I guess it’s not the rubber now.

Here are some good pics of each of the 4 note areas.
Perhaps you could identify something suspect amongst the general ageing signs.

I have cunningly left the keys out and the exposed area covered with A4 paper to stop dust.
Time for another can of air.
Good thing I don’t drink, I would’ve had a few cans of something heavier than air by now :)

* I have Multi-meter ready for any testing.

Link to Photos below (for some reason it wouldn’t let me upload files).

F3, F#3

G#2, A2, A#2, B2, C3

C#2, D2

D#1, E1

I just noticed that you edited your post with photo links.

Unfortunately, it looks like the MK61L board is suffering from significant corrosion problems. The areas where the green solder mask (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solder_mask) is darkened and/or lumpy indicate corrosion of the copper foil beneath it. Although I can’t be certain, it appears that even the heads of the screws which mount the board are affected - I thought I saw that on the MKH-D board picture you posted earlier. This type of damage is typically seen in areas of high humidity, especially coastal regions having “salt air”.

You can probably use your multimeter on a low resistance range to find damaged foils, for example checking from the “E"-shaped carbon contact areas to the diode connections. If your soldering skills are good, the solder mask can be scraped off and small gauge wire can be used to jump over any foil discontinuities.

However, considering the number of affected areas that seem apparent from the pictures, I suspect replacing the MK61L board might keep you from taking up drinking - US pricing for the board, part # WD80010R, is $43.77 plus shipping. My only concern is that problems might not be limited to the keyboard - the mLAN problem might have a similar cause.

This might interest you:
http://elektrotanya.com/yamaha_motif_xs6_xs7_xs8.pdf/download.html
There are a number of tests that can be run. I would suggest that for now you run only the mLAN one. Here is a procedure for doing that:

1) Start with the XS turned off.
2) Hold down both the [REMOTE] and [ * ](Record) buttons while switching on the XS, until the “TEST MODE” screen appears.
3) Allow the XS system to boot, then press [ENTER] to begin the tests.
4) Press [INC/YES] until “22: mLAN” is shown (use [DEC/NO] if you go too far). See page 133 of the manual for mLAN “[Test Contents]”. Also see page 134, “[Test method]”, “[Check item]”, etc. Please read those pages before proceeding. Connect speakers, and IEEE1394 repeating hubs (if you have them).
5) Press [ENTER] to start the mLAN test. The “Detection” and “MIDI” lines should quickly indicate ”OK”. If either shows ”NG”, then the mLAN card or the internal XS connection to it is bad.
6) Use the [ENTER] button to step through the remaining tests, one by one. Speakers must be connected as explained under [Test method] for “Audio” and “MUTE” tests. The 1394 Port test requires repeater hubs - but even if you don’t have them, do the other tests.
7) When the mLAN testing is completed, or if there’s a failure, press [EXIT]
8) Press [INC/YES] (if necessary) until “25:Exit” appears. Press [ENTER] and then [INC/YES] to restart in normal mode.

If you don’t connect repeater hubs, the “1394 Port” test will fail.

-------------

Note to anyone not experiencing trouble with their XS:
Please don’t go looking unnecessarily for problems - you risk causing some new ones.