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Viewing topic "Yamaha USB MIDI driver mix-up (ES7+ES8+RackES)"

     
Posted on: May 03, 2015 @ 05:49 AM
- Henry -
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Total Posts:  27
Joined  10-30-2011
status: Regular

Hi all,

I’ve stumbled accross a strange problem with the Yamaha USB-MIDI driver, after adding a second-hand Motif ES8 to my studio setup. The driver installs without errors, and there are no conflicts reported by Windows’ Device Manager. The USB-MIDI Control Panel utility also looks fine, with the Note-On and Note-Off send function working for all connected instruments.

Elsewhere, everything is fine, but only as long as only one of the Motif ES keyboards are connected. When I try to access both the Motif ES7 and ES8 keyboards simultaneously, however, some of their MIDI ports won’t work properly, and won’t even show in Sonar 8PE or Sonar Platinum.

The USB-MIDI driver seems to be working just fine for the other instruments I use, including my Motif Rack ES, an MU2000 module and an 02R96 mixer.

With only the Motif ESs connected, the Yamaha Studio Manager software (standalone version - not the OPT view) displays the input/output ports like this:

Input Ports:
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-1
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-2
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-3
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-4
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-1
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-2
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-3
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-4
* Yamaha MOTIF-RACK ES-1


Output Ports:
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-1
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-2
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-3
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-4
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-5
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-6
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-7
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-8
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-1
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-2
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-3
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-4
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-5
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-6
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-7
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-8
* Yamaha MOTIF-RACK ES-1
* Yamaha MOTIF-RACK ES-2
* Yamaha MOTIF-RACK ES-3
* Yamaha MOTIF-RACK ES-4
* Yamaha MOTIF-RACK ES-5
* Yamaha MOTIF-RACK ES-6
* Yamaha MOTIF-RACK ES-7
* Yamaha MOTIF-RACK ES-8

The above is pretty much as expected: 1 input/8 outputs from the Motif Rack ES, and 4 inputs/8 outputs from each of the Motif ES keyboards. I’ve noticed that there is no identifier to tell the two keyboards apart, while the Rack ES ports are clearly labelled. Hence, a little trial and error is needed to find out what goes where.

The real problem appears when Studio Manager tries to sync the three synths: I always get time-out errors on the ES7 and ES8, while voice data is received from the Rack ES. Studio Manager also seems to get the editors for the two keyboards mixed up, as when I make a change in the port setup of one of them, the change affects the other one too. Renaming the editors doesn’t help, because the default name is in place again the next time Studio Manager is loaded.

When I open Sonar 8PE or Sonar Platinum, and have a look inside Sonar’s MIDI Devices menu, something is actually missing:

Input Ports:
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-1
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-2
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-3
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-4
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-1
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-2
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-3
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-4
* Yamaha MOTIF-RACK ES-1


Output Ports:
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-1
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-2
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-3
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-4
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-5
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-6
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-7
* Yamaha MOTIF ES-8
* Yamaha MOTIF-RACK ES-1
* Yamaha MOTIF-RACK ES-2
* Yamaha MOTIF-RACK ES-3
* Yamaha MOTIF-RACK ES-4
* Yamaha MOTIF-RACK ES-5
* Yamaha MOTIF-RACK ES-6
* Yamaha MOTIF-RACK ES-7
* Yamaha MOTIF-RACK ES-8

The 1 input and 8 outputs coming from the Motif Rack ES are still clearly identifiable. Two sets of 4 inputs from the Motif ES keyboards are also visible, although one set cannot really be activated, because these four inputs always revert to being deactivated the next time i visit the menu. You’ll also notice that one entire set of 8 output ports are entirely missing!

The missing ports are displayed in Sonar Platinum, but can’t really be activated, as they always revert to being disabled the next time i open the MIDI Devices menu. Earlier attempts with my friend’s Sonar X3 version resulted in the same thing, and X3 actually reported errors with one set of Motif ES input ports (1-4). I can’t remember the exact error message, but it had something to do with Windows not handing over the driver.

Output of MIDI data from a Sonar track works fine for the keyboard that still has visible drivers. Selecting one of the Motif ES keyboards as track input, while both instruments are active, however, I get no MIDI signal at all (no activity indicated by Sonar’s SysTray icon, and nothing is recorded onto the track). If I turn one of the keyboards off, Sonar warns me that a MIDI device is no longer available and asks me if it should be deactivated. When I click “yes”, I’m left with one complete set of 4ins/8outs, like one would expect, and the remaining Motif ES keyboard then works like a charm.

I haven’t read any documentation indicating that the USB-MIDI driver is unable to handle two instruments of a particular type, but my two keyboards do in fact appear to be “blocking” each other, at least when I attempt to use them both simultaneously. I have tested this with the 3.04, 3.12 and 3.13 drivers on fresh Win7 installations (both x86 and x64 versions), with only the bare essentials, and with all other devices (except sound cards and mouse/keyboard) left out. I’ve also tried spreading the synths across different USB controllers, but the problem remains the same…

Because the instruments are no longer supported, I’m getting the silent treatment from Yamaha. Therefore, I’d like to know if any of you have experienced similar issues, or maybe even have ideas for a solution (be it registry tweaks or modifications to the driver itself). Otherwise, I’d probably ditch my Motif ES8, and get an S90ES instead.

- H -

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: March 27, 2018 @ 04:56 AM
- Henry -
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Total Posts:  27
Joined  10-30-2011
status: Regular

Hi again,

An update on this is long overdue, I guess. Long story short: I sold the Motif ES8, eventually got an S90ES instead, and problem solved!

As I suspected, the USB-MIDI driver wasn’t able to differentiate between the two Motif ES’es: To the driver, they appeared as identical devices, hence the conflict. Now, all my USB-connected MIDI instruments - 5 Yamahas using the same driver - have complete and functional driver entries, and they all work simultaneously. There’s also a couple of Edirol units with their own drivers, that are playing along nicely. :-)

- H -

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: March 27, 2018 @ 06:07 AM
5pinDIN
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Total Posts:  10474
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Legend
- Henry - - 27 March 2018 04:56 AM

[...] As I suspected, the USB-MIDI driver wasn’t able to differentiate between the two Motif ES’es: To the driver, they appeared as identical devices, hence the conflict. [...]

For some reason I never saw your earlier post. If I had, I would have asked if you tried setting the two ES units each to a different Device Number.

See pages 264 and 265 of the ES Owner’s Manual (https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/9/333989/motifese1.pdf).

Having never owned an ES myself, let alone two of them, I don’t know if that would have made a difference. My XS6 and XF6, of course, have unique identities.

For you, the problem would seem to no longer be a concern.  :-)

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: April 02, 2018 @ 11:44 PM
- Henry -
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Total Posts:  27
Joined  10-30-2011
status: Regular

Hi,

Thanks for the feedback. I actually came to think of the Device Number setting when I wrote the update a week ago. It made me slap my forehead, but it never crossed my mind back when I had the ES8. I never tried it, but I suspect it might have made a difference!

The ES8 was mostly redundant, but I got a bargain on the S90ES, so the trade was a win-win. :)

- H -

  [ Ignore ]  


 
     


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