Looking for a keyboard for our weekend/vacation 2nd home on the country… it should have:

-Have good piano action so the kids can do their piano lessons on it
-Have good piano sounds
-Work well with Ableton live and logic
-Have a nice (under €1500) price tag

The MOXF might fit the picture just perfect

a) what are the main differences with the Motif (i know there is no sampling and aftertouch)
b) is the editor the same as the Motif XF editor?
c) How does it integrate with Ableton?
d) How is the piano-keyaction compared to Motif XF and Clavinova range and other contenders like FA08, Kawai MP7, and Krome
e) is it possible to fit a Ocean beach DB-1 drawbar unit (17 cm wide) between the wheels and the volume slider?
f) does the editor work well together with a windows touchscreen and could it be used to controll the Motif in real time from the touchscreen instead of from the tiny small screen?
g) are there any must have ipad apps?  anyone using TouchOSC with MOXF?
h) how is the quallity from MOXF when functioning as an USB audio device?

Thank you kindly for taking the time to read my questions and possibly answering them.

I have the MOXF6 so can’t speak directly for the MOXF8 specifics.

The piano sounds are subjective.  I prefer the S6 sounds over the CF3 ones.  You can also add new piano samples if you have the flashboard installed.  There is a free CP-1 which I also like.

a) Someone with the XF might be able to give more detailed information.  Here are a few things I can think of: the MOXF is cheaper build, it is Graded Hammer keys (meaning the keys weighting changes as you go up the keyboard), has knobs (XF has sliders), one flash board slot (XF has two), no on-board sampling (though you can sample with the Jon Melas software), no aftertouch, only L/R outs, and probably many more.

b) Each Yamaha editor is specific to that one keyboard.  The MOXF editor is specific to the MOXF.

c) I don’t know about Ableton, but has worked well with Cubase.  My computer DAW experience, though, is limited as my synths are usually not in the same room with my computer.  I’ll use the iPad more often.

f) I could see the editor being a bit tiny for touchscreen, but it could work.  I haven’t used the editor in quite some time so can’t recall if it’s realtime, or if you have to press a key again to hear the edit.  The editor is nice, but I find the on-board screen quite useful.  But that is my own personal preference.  Again, I don’t hook up my synths to computers, so don’t have the editor readily available to use.

g) There are many must have apps for the iPad.  :-) Which apps, depends on your needs.

Regarding touch apps:  I haven’t used TouchOSC, but should work great.  I like to use TB MIDI Stuff and have been working on a MOXF editor (off and on) over the year.  Lemur is another good option.  There is also MIDI Designer Pro.  Yamaha offers several apps as well.  Though nothing as deep as a full editor, their apps are quite helpful and very useful.

For sounds:  I highly recommend iGrand Piano.  It has some really terrific piano sounds.  I think I tend to liking these even better than the Motif ones.  The recently released Yamaha Synth Book contains a really nice synth (and it’s free).  Galileo for organs.  For synth sounds, Nave, Thor, iSEM, iMini, Magellan, Sunrizer are good ones.  There are tons of other very good ones.

For Recording/DAW:  The two most popular are Auria and Cubasis.  I use Auria.

h) I haven’t done any scientific tests, but the USB audio sounds great.  The MOXF is actually both Audio and MIDI USB.  You can hook up the iPad/computer and have the audio come back through the synth or have the MOXF audio recorded on the iPad/Computer.  I have my MOXF6, iPad and foot pedal and I’m good to have a highly portable, mini studio.

lordbachus - 02 May 2015 07:39 AM

e) is it possible to fit a Ocean beach DB-1 drawbar unit (17 cm wide) between the wheels and the volume slider?
f) does the editor work well together with a windows touchscreen and could it be used to controll the Motif in real time from the touchscreen instead of from the tiny small screen?

.

To answer just these two questions -

Regarding question “e” - no it is not possible. Two reasons.- one, it is a 9-drawbar controller and there are no “nine-element” organ voices in the MO XF. And two, there really is no physical room to “mount it” in the position you want to place it. Actually, the target market for the Ocean Beach DB-1 is Nord Stage
owners (that’s why it’s red).

Regarding question “f” - I don’t know whether the editor works well with a Windows touchscreen. However, I do know it does not do “real-time control” of the MO XF. It is a sound editor, not a controller
application.

DavePolich - 02 May 2015 11:24 PM

lordbachus - 02 May 2015 07:39 AM

e) is it possible to fit a Ocean beach DB-1 drawbar unit (17 cm wide) between the wheels and the volume slider?
f) does the editor work well together with a windows touchscreen and could it be used to controll the Motif in real time from the touchscreen instead of from the tiny small screen?

.

To answer just these two questions -

Regarding question “e” - no it is not possible. Two reasons.- one, it is a 9-drawbar controller and there are no “nine-element” organ voices in the MO XF. And two, there really is no physical room to “mount it” in the position you want to place it. Actually, the target market for the Ocean Beach DB-1 is Nord Stage
owners (that’s why it’s red).

Regarding question “f” - I don’t know whether the editor works well with a Windows touchscreen. However, I do know it does not do “real-time control” of the MO XF. It is a sound editor, not a controller
application.

Thanks dave…

I did quite some reading up since i asked these questions, and it seems both of these questions somehow are answered/fullfilled by the ipad apps..

There is a Yamaha app that gives you software drawbars that should function the same as the 8 drawbars of the motif..

And then there also seems to be a Yamaha app that allows you to edit your sounds, which i hope works in real time for some settings…

the ipad apps seem really very promissing for controlling the MOXF inn real time..  I have a tyros 5 at my home and wish Yamaha made these kind of apps for the Tyros 5..

lordbachus - 02 May 2015 07:39 AM

a) what are the main differences with the Motif (i know there is no sampling and aftertouch)

These threads might provide insight:
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/469959/
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/471264/
A search would likely turn up others.

 

lordbachus -

b) is the editor the same as the Motif XF editor?

I have an XF, but no MOXF. However, comparing the screen presentation of the XF versus MOXF Editor, the appearance is the same. Although I obviously can’t interact with a MOXF, the MOXF Editor seems to work like the XF one.

 

lordbachus -

f) does the editor work well together with a windows touchscreen and could it be used to controll the Motif in real time from the touchscreen instead of from the tiny small screen?

I can’t comment on touchscreen operation, but once the “ONLINE” connection is established between the Editor and my XF, the control is real-time. Values changed on the computer are immediately changed in the XF, in terms of both the XF’s sound and its display. I don’t think it’s otherwise with the MOXF Editor.

Thanks for taking time in providing me with answers… I have read heaps of stuff and seen lots of youtube videos, so i am getting the picture.. Tough most stuff written is very basic..

Espescially information about the editor seems quite rare, i asume that when i use the vst plugin in a Daw, that the keyboard needs to be in song mode?  I also asume that in my Daw i can chain VST effects on top of the MOXF sounds.  But can i also use the MOXF effects and arps on top of a VST sound?

Hi there

The editor IS real time.
If you want to use more than one voice then you need to be in song mode.

In theory you should be able to use the MOXF’s effects if you routed an output from your DAW into the audio input on the MOXF. I have never tried this myself though.
I don’t use the USB audio myself neither so not sure how it would be done in that case.

Best of luck and have fun!

Two more questions..

Does the 3rd party 2 gb flash ram board fit in the MOXF slot? ( it happens to work in the Tyros 5 which essentially uses the same flash)

Does the USB audio interface of the MOXF allow for the streaming of 16 auio channels just like the firewire interface of the XF?

I know there is a lot of sounds avaailable for both Motif and MOXF, both free and commercially. But are there also arp’s and drums available for download?

lordbachus - 03 May 2015 05:55 PM

...Does the 3rd party 2 gb flash ram board fit in the MOXF slot?…

See the first-hand report from B.Minor near the end of This Thread.

lordbachus - 03 May 2015 05:55 PM

...Does the USB audio interface of the MOXF allow for the streaming of 16 auio channels just like the firewire interface of the XF?....

No, audio via USB on the MOXF is limited to (4) channels.

See Audio Channels, page 54 of the MOXF Owner’s Manual.

cmayhle - 03 May 2015 08:03 PM

lordbachus - 03 May 2015 05:55 PM

...Does the USB audio interface of the MOXF allow for the streaming of 16 auio channels just like the firewire interface of the XF?....

No, audio via USB on the MOXF is limited to (4) channels.

See Audio Channels, page 54 of the MOXF Owner’s Manual.

This could be a potential dealbreaker.. i recon this means i can not use VST effects on MOXF sounds when i use them as a VST in my DAW?

Well, not surprised, all the reading, and espescially the reaction of an official Yamaha representive made me realise this is not as much a full Motif as popular opinion wants us to believe..

But then, who would expect that at half the price…

lordbachus - 04 May 2015 04:59 AM

This could be a potential dealbreaker.. i recon this means i can not use VST effects on MOXF sounds when i use them as a VST in my DAW?


Well, not surprised, all the reading, and espescially the reaction of an official Yamaha representive made me realise this is not as much a full Motif as popular opinion wants us to believe..

But then, who would expect that at half the price…

I’m not a Yamaha sales rep but that isn’t much of a limitation IMHO. For normal effects like delay, reverb etc. , I see no need to use VSTs and if its glitches etc. you’re after, then I find it easier to bounce it down to audio first anyway.

Best of luck with whatever you end up getting.

lordbachus - 04 May 2015 04:59 AM

[...]Well, not surprised, all the reading, and espescially the reaction of an official Yamaha representive made me realise this is not as much a full Motif as popular opinion wants us to believe..

But then, who would expect that at half the price…

Crowdsourcing of information has its limitations. For some users, the MOXF fits their requirements - for others, not so much.

Here’s a more mathematical/scientific viewpoint:
For tone generation MOXF ≈ Motif XF
In certain respects MOXF < Motif XF
Sometimes MOXF << Motif XF
In a few cases MOXF > Motif XF
In general MOXF ≠ Motif XF

;-)

One can’t argue against science!  :-)
The MOXF6 however fits on my desk and the wife didn’t kill me when I bought it, a Motif would’ve failed those tests.

zpink - 04 May 2015 08:45 AM

One can’t argue against science!  :-)
The MOXF6 however fits on my desk and the wife didn’t kill me when I bought it, a Motif would’ve failed those tests.

Then for you (and lots of others), the MOXF meets your requirements.

Very few things in life are a perfect fit. It’s good to recognize when they’re close enough.

lordbachus - 03 May 2015 04:26 AM

seems both of these questions somehow are answered/fullfilled by the ipad apps..

There is a Yamaha app that gives you software drawbars that should function the same as the 8 drawbars of the motif..

And then there also seems to be a Yamaha app that allows you to edit your sounds, which i hope works in real time for some settings…

I’m not sure the Yamaha iPad apps will meet your needs.  The Yamaha apps are fairly limited in their editing abilities.  Yes, you can use the Editor to make changes to your voices, but you aren’t doing any deep editing at the element level.  It is limited to an overall Filter, Attack, Release, etc. for the Voice.  Still extremely useful, but more like global changes to the current voice, as opposed to the nitty gritty editing of individual elements (if that is what you want).

There are Yamaha apps with sliders, but they won’t work as drawbars.  You need to get down to the level of each element’s individual volume control and none of the Yamaha apps are like this. 

This is where the other iPad control surface and editors come in.  You can use touch-based editors like TB MIDI Stuff (which is what I use), Lemur, TouchOSC and others to send SysEx data to your synth.  If you can send SysEx data, you can then get down to each individual piece of element data.

> the ipad apps seem really very promissing for controlling the > MOXF inn real time.

Yes.  :-)