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Viewing topic "Yamaha and Motif Series"

   
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Posted on: March 25, 2015 @ 09:10 AM
kb420
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Is Yamaha ever going to make a new Motif? 

My ES was stolen in 2012.  At the time I was going through some health and financial difficulties.  Now that all of that’s over with, I would like to buy a new Motif.  I wanted to buy an XF, but then I saw the Kronos.  Now, keep in mind, the Motif XF has been out since 2010.  Since then, the Kronos was announced and updated twice.  The original Kronos used technology that is much more advanced than the Motif, and Korg has continued to develop that product with the Kronos X, and Kronos 2 with O.S. 3.0. I consider myself a “Yamaha” guy, and I owned the ES7, but the difference between the price of a the current XF7, and a Kronos 2 73 is about $200. Once again, the XF was released in 2010. Maybe if the price of the XF7 reflected the fact that it was 5 years old now, and was priced < $2500 I could see buying one, but at $200 more, the Kronos is still more bang for my buck.

When will Yamaha release an answer to the Kronos? 
If not, then when will Yamaha put a more realistic price tag on the dated and aging Motif XF?

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Posted on: March 25, 2015 @ 09:22 AM
5pinDIN
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kb420 - 25 March 2015 09:10 AM

Is Yamaha ever going to make a new Motif?

[...]Maybe if the price of the XF7 reflected the fact that it was 5 years old now, and was priced < $2500 I could see buying one, but at $200 more, the Kronos is still more bang for my buck.

When will Yamaha release an answer to the Kronos? 
If not, then when will Yamaha put a more realistic price tag on the dated and aging Motif XF?

I suspect that when you see the XF7 being sold for significantly less than $2500US, you’ll know that a new model will be released shortly, or already has been.  :-)

By the way, Musikmesse is only about three weeks away, so who knows…  ;-)

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Posted on: March 25, 2015 @ 09:53 AM
meatballfulton
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You should try Kronos before you make a decision based on “more advanced technology” and $200.

It’s not as clearcut as you seem to think. I tried Kronos and decided to stay with Yamaha because it wasn’t as good in too many areas important to me. Your needs are different from mine so you may feel otherwise.

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Posted on: March 25, 2015 @ 10:14 AM
philwoodmusic
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kb420,

Since you didn’t mention them, how would a Motif XF fit your musical needs?

Technology and price aside.

My musical needs are always my first and commonly my only consideration.

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Posted on: March 26, 2015 @ 08:40 AM
kb420
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philwoodmusic - 25 March 2015 10:14 AM

kb420,

Since you didn’t mention them, how would a Motif XF fit your musical needs?

Technology and price aside.

My musical needs are always my first and commonly my only consideration.

Musical needs?  It’s not so much about musical needs as it is about having a hardware workstation.  Right now, my computer is the center of my studio.  I have plenty of virtual instruments and plugins to fulfill all of my musical needs, but I’m Old School, and I miss the immediacy and “hands-on” feel of a true piece of hardware.  I want to be able to create music without needing to turn on my computer.  I had that with my Motif ES, and I miss it now since it was stolen.

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Posted on: March 26, 2015 @ 08:47 AM
kb420
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meatballfulton - 25 March 2015 09:53 AM

You should try Kronos before you make a decision based on “more advanced technology” and $200.


It’s not as clearcut as you seem to think. I tried Kronos and decided to stay with Yamaha because it wasn’t as good in too many areas important to me. Your needs are different from mine so you may feel otherwise.

Exactly what areas are you referring to?  I’m not trying to be a smart ass.  I’m genuinely curious.  I haven’t done a “side by side” comparison of the Motif XF and the Kronos.  Actually, I’ve never laid hands on the Kronos at all.  I have heard and played the XF at Sam Ash. 

Jamal from “Gospel Musicians” did a pretty good 4 part video review of the original Kronos, and he really seemed to like it, and he’s definitely a “Yamaha” guy.  Here is a link to part 4 of his review where he gives his conclusion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRjjJ0hcwlU

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Posted on: March 26, 2015 @ 08:56 AM
philwoodmusic
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kb420 - 26 March 2015 08:40 AM
philwoodmusic - 25 March 2015 10:14 AM

kb420,

Since you didn’t mention them, how would a Motif XF fit your musical needs?

Technology and price aside.

My musical needs are always my first and commonly my only consideration.

Musical needs?  It’s not so much about musical needs as it is about having a hardware workstation.  Right now, my computer is the center of my studio.  I have plenty of virtual instruments and plugins to fulfill all of my musical needs, but I’m Old School, and I miss the immediacy and “hands-on” feel of a true piece of hardware.  I want to be able to create music without needing to turn on my computer.  I had that with my Motif ES, and I miss it now since it was stolen.

So, buy another Motif ES, dirt cheap?

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: March 26, 2015 @ 09:00 AM
kb420
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philwoodmusic - 26 March 2015 08:56 AM

So, buy another Motif ES, dirt cheap?

Lmao!  Good response.  I want something “new”.

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Posted on: March 26, 2015 @ 09:15 AM
philwoodmusic
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Sorry, it wasn’t meant to sound as sarcastic as it came out, but you did say you missed your ES, which is a great and very capable keyboard (as I’m sure you know).

That’s where we differ, so, age or how current something is doesn’t bother me at all. In fact, I just picked up a Roland D50 on ebay because I liked one patch on it.

Getting another ES wouldn’t involve too much money, you’d get back what you miss and you’ll be able to play without your computer as well as having a capable controller for your DAW and virtual instruments when you want it.

Maybe that could buy you time until Yamaha bring out the board you do want.

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Posted on: March 26, 2015 @ 09:26 AM
kb420
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Good points.  The reason why I haven’t pulled the trigger on a Kronos is because I am waiting for Yamaha’s next offering.  Patience is a virtue.  Good things come to those who wait. Etc. etc. etc.....

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Posted on: March 26, 2015 @ 10:34 AM
valmundo
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Generally, the Kronos is better at synth sounds and the Yamaha does a better job with acoustic and guitar sounds IMHO. I am simplifying it a bit but that has been my general assessment of the difference between the two boards. Also, I don’t see where you are getting this information that the Kronos is only $200 more than the XF. On amazon, a Kronos X 61 goes for $2999 while the XF6 goes for $2499. I suppose if you add the Flash board then it gets to your $200 price difference, but the Flash board is not a required purchase.

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Posted on: March 26, 2015 @ 11:18 AM
dsetto
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meatballfulton - 25 March 2015 09:53 AM

I tried Kronos and decided to stay with Yamaha because it wasn’t as good in too many areas important to me. Your needs are different from mine so you may feel otherwise.

This is my experience as well.

I bought my 1st workstation after knowing the 1st kronos was announced, but before it was delivered. (& the Kurzweil PC3K8 was rumored.) It was a tough call, but I had spent enough time researching, and I had to move on. Recently, I made some changes, and I considered selling my XF7 and either replacing it with a kronos 2-61, or sell my XF7, get by with what I now have got, and check back in, when its successor arrives. I decided to stay with my XF7, and go deeper into it.

Simply put, I want a no-perceived latency sampler experience, that can power on- with a large collection - quickly. I.e., I want the best performance sampler. It’s my guess the Kronos can do no-percevied latency when user samples are loaded into ram. However, when I played the streaming pianos from both a K2 61 & 88, I perceived latency. (I’m an outlier in this regard.) So, I am making the guess that user samples streaming from the SSD will have a similar latency. To me it’s more than I’d like. Compared to VI’s, surely, it’s a delight. It’s also my guess that it would take more than a few minutes to load in the max user available ram into a kronos. (This is not verified.)

So, based on both these experiences and assumptions, to me, a Kronos 2 61 is likely amazing at VA’s, and all the ram-loaded sounds, and the clone-wheel & the EP emulations. I really liked the sound of a simple Kronos VA I got going. And the decay of the piano was really nice. My decision is heavily influenced by my existing momentum in the tool I currently have. Personally, I truly hope that Yamaha continues along their path of having a no-latency, large FLASH, performance sampler. I hope that they do not adopt a disk streaming approach.

The MPC5000 ended. Roland is currently not making a high-end sampler. Kronos is amazing that it can quickly load from an enormous SSD, just under 3GB of user samples. (Anyone know how long?)

The Motif XF7 can have 4GB ready to play, within a minute of powering on. On 76 smooth keys.—So sure, it’s the kool-aid I serve myself to attempt being focused. But, it’s tangible to me.

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Posted on: March 26, 2015 @ 12:09 PM
MrMotif
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Phil makes a valid point about the ES. Playing it extensively the other day I was reminded how good and solid this instrument is. There’s also a ton of libraries available for it, a ton of knowledge, videos etc., and you can pick one up for a song, relatively.

New is absolutely not always better, especially when you’re talking about a musical instrument and even an electronic one. Kronos and/or any instrument that Yamaha might make in the future, will inevitably come with bells and whistles but it’s probably healthy to ask yourself if snazzy features actually help you make better music. Personally, I make my best music on a 1910 Broadwood upright acoustic piano: zero latency, full polyphony, infinite touch response, and it even works when the power goes off.  Just saying.

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Posted on: March 26, 2015 @ 01:49 PM
5pinDIN
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MrMotif - 26 March 2015 12:09 PM

Phil makes a valid point about the ES. Playing it extensively the other day I was reminded how good and solid this instrument is. There’s also a ton of libraries available for it, a ton of knowledge, videos etc., and you can pick one up for a song, relatively.

I find it interesting that a big deal has been made of the Kronos having multiple sound engines. It seems to me that a Motif outfitted with three PLG boards covered a lot of ground and predated the Kronos significantly. Perhaps it’s the Kronos that’s “dated”.  ;-)

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Posted on: March 26, 2015 @ 04:16 PM
kb420
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valmundo - 26 March 2015 10:34 AM

Generally, the Kronos is better at synth sounds and the Yamaha does a better job with acoustic and guitar sounds IMHO. I am simplifying it a bit but that has been my general assessment of the difference between the two boards. Also, I don’t see where you are getting this information that the Kronos is only $200 more than the XF. On amazon, a Kronos X 61 goes for $2999 while the XF6 goes for $2499. I suppose if you add the Flash board then it gets to your $200 price difference, but the Flash board is, not a required purchase.

I was referring to the XF7 price versus the Kronos 73 price.  I had an ES7, so I wanted a 73-76 key workstation.  There is only a $200 difference between the XF7 and the Kronos 73. 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Kronos7

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MotifXF7

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Posted on: March 26, 2015 @ 04:21 PM
kb420
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5pinDIN - 26 March 2015 01:49 PM
MrMotif - 26 March 2015 12:09 PM

Phil makes a valid point about the ES. Playing it extensively the other day I was reminded how good and solid this instrument is. There’s also a ton of libraries available for it, a ton of knowledge, videos etc., and you can pick one up for a song, relatively.

I find it interesting that a big deal has been made of the Kronos having multiple sound engines. It seems to me that a Motif outfitted with three PLG boards covered a lot of ground and predated the Kronos significantly. Perhaps it’s the Kronos that’s “dated”.  ;-)

The XF doesn’t have PLG slots.  They removed that from the Motif line a while ago. Meanwhile, the Kronos has an SSD drive and virtual analog synth engines.  I still think it’s the XF that’s looking dated.

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