Hey all,

I am new to this forum, so any help is appreciated.

I am now the proud owner of a MOXF8 and I am thinking about the Motif Premium Collection.  I will likely need a flash card at some point, so it seems like a no brainer.

What I am really looking for are more Rhodes/Wurly, Hammond, Mellotron, and all that vintage keys type of stuff.  I would really like as many instruments as possible since no two sampled rhodes sound alike.  My MOXF8 is great so far, but (although there are a ton of patches) it only comes with 3 sampled rhodes (one of which I am not really keen on) and 1 wurly.

Obviously the Premium Collection comes with the Chick Corea Rhodes, but no matter how meticulously sampled, that is only 1 rhodes sound.

It also says that it comes with some sounds from the CP1 piano.  I know that the CP1 has four distinct rhodes and two wulritzer sample sets and I have heard them in demos (they sound great).  It seems like only acoustic pianos were included from the CP1 though.  Is it the same CP1 samples as are given away here?:

http://ca.yamaha.com/en/products/music-production/synthesizers/sy-moxf/moxf8/?mode=model [under the additional sample library tab]

If so then I already have them.  Or maybe (wishful thinking) there are some other sounds included from the CP1, like the rhodes and wurly mentioned above.

If anyone can confirm or deny this that would be great.  Also I would appreciate any review of the premium collection and the sounds therein.

I already have Inspiration in a Flash and the CP1 libraries that were given away for free, so if there’s not much more to be had in the Premium Collection in terms of vintage keys, then I’ll save up for a 1GB flash card and get some other sample sets instead.

Sorry for the long first-time post.... hope it’s in the right section and I have not violated any forum rules or anything.

Thanks guys!

p.s.  If anyone has any other sound library suggestions compatible with the MOXF8 for vintage keys, or knows a way to get those CP1 samples short of buying a CP1 then I am all ears.

Welcome to the forums!

Just a few items to correct… The Rhodes emulations in the actual CP1 instrument are not samples at all, but a different technology (physical modeling) that recreates, with uncanny accuracy, the five major versions of Rhodes preamps and hammer/harp system sound: 1971, 1973, 1975, 1978 and Dyno-My-Rhodes modification. But without getting into a discussion of all that… They are not “samples” as you would find in the Motif/MOX family synthesizers… The technology is an analysis and mathematical recreation of the instruments, including accurate models of each preamp version. So the tones are fed to model of the preamp… So its a system of various components used together to recreate the experience.

Now of course, sampling can also be used to recreate a Rhodes sound (as done in sample playback synthesizers like the Motif and MO series) the difference is the Synthesizers recreate perhaps three velocity sample sets across the keyboard… Soft-medium-hard strikes. These can be very effective. The Chick Corea sample set is like twelve velocity layers across the entire range…

The difference with the modeling tecnologies used in a unique board like the CP1 is that there is no velocity switching between sets of samples at all. Each note that is generated is the result of some very heavy number crunching that recreates the exact timbre and tone of the electro-magnetic instrument version being ‘modeled’. For the purists, to be sure, ...the models are deadly accurate.

Will it matter? To some, absolutely. If you never played the real thing or you are mixing it with tons of other instruments all that subtlety probably gets lost… But it is nice to know it is available.

The main Rhodes samples you need to recreate in a sample playback engine can be broken down to the felt hammer tone, the neoprene rubber hammer tone, and the enhanced clear tone from the Dyno ...

The preamplifier differences are hard to capture with sampling alone but in your MOXF you can certainly use the physical modeling effects found on board. The hammer adjust portion of the modeling in the CPs allows you to customize the timbre and tonal quality like nothing else… That is a clear advantage of the model: the functions it allows one to adjust, you simply cannot change the hammer strike position with just a digital recording. That’s unique about the physical model.

We are not certain what particular Rhodes sound you are looking for, but having met the enginneers at a Yamaha who studied the Rhodes, and the length to which they researched the instrument, and having my own experience owning, repairing, reconstructing, recording, and playing the instrument.... There is not a Rhodes sound that I can’t recreate given the tools available.

The acoustic pianos recreated in the CP1 is a combination of sampling and modeling, again quite different from just the sample playback technology found in the Motif/MOX series synthesizers.  Again the differences are subtle but again it’s all in the sonic results, feel, and musicality of the instrument.

No one is expected to like every Voice… I had the opportunity to show the CP1 to a very famous player/singer at the NAMM show when it was introduced… When we got to the CP80 sound, the artist just couldn’t understand why anyone would play that sound. And that’s allowed, but if you were gigging back in the late 1970’s early 1980’s you dreamed about having a piano you could gig with… This artist probably wasn’t even born at the time… The felt hammer Rhodes goes back ten years before the CP80, and for many sounds a bit “vintage"… It’s like Mellotrons - some people still think they sound great, in reality (taken out of their original context) they are just weird sounds....

So to your question… Thinking you have a CP1 when you have a set of samples that were used in the CP1 is a form of delusion that we all are guilty of… It’s okay as long as you don’t take it too far. A sample set of a Hammond B3 is not a B3, a sample of flute no matter how good, is not a flute, a sample of your Voice is not you. I get that all the time… When I’m in stores meeting musicians and they play the piano in a synth, and they step back and say “that’s not a piano” well no kidding, I always say, what tipped you off the fact that it has no strings? They smile, the fact that it does weigh 400 pounds! They start to get it, Yamaha is not building MOXF’s and CP1s to replace pianos, or flutes or the myriad of acoustic instruments we make. These emulations have their own reasons to exist and one does not have justify using them.

The only problem comes when you start thinking because you have a sample of something that you’ve got the real thing… The sample of the CP1, is not having a CP1 but if you can’t afford to get one or for what ever reason you can’t have one in addition to everything else, the sample set is the next best thing.

Hi Bad Mister and thanks for the detailed post.

I hadn’t realized that the CP1 used modelling rather than multi-sampling.  Thank-you for your explanation of both.  I have tended to prefer multi-sampling to modelling in the past, however the technology is rapidly improving and there is no doubt that it is where the future is headed.  The flexibility is obviously greater with modelling, and as you mentioned the expressiveness of the instrument is better in terms of velocity layers (a gradual curve rather than 3 or 4 distinct zones where the sound of the instrument suddenly changes).  All that being said I personally still prefer multi-samples, as it is a recording of an actual instrument, and with enough velocity layers it is convincing enough to me.  As for the preamps, etc. I tend to use various methods in the analog domain to achieve my desired effect (re-amping, stomp boxes, etc.) when recording.

Nonetheless I was very impressed with the EP models from the CP1 that I heard, so my preference may be starting to shift!

As you stated, owning a sample set is nothing like owning the original instrument.  I simply do not have the funds (or space) to own a Rhodes, Wurlitzer, B3, Mellotron, and all the many vintage keyboards I would love to own.  So it would seem I am stuck with digital recreations for now, and many of them are very good indeed.

So obviously the CP1 acoustic piano that was re-jigged for the Motif Premium Collection must have been re-sampled in some way to convert it for use in the Motif.

My question was, is this acoustic grand piano the only CP1 sound in the Premium Collection, or were others added in the same way.

Also are there any vintage keyboard sounds to be found in the collection other than the CP1 piano and the Chick Corea Rhodes?  If so what type of sounds are they, and can anyone who has the collection list them all (or just their favourites) and speak to their overall quality / usefulness.

Thanks again.

P.S.  I had considered a CP1 but settled on the MOXF8 for it’s flash upgradability.  There are simply too many sounds I need on a regular basis that were not present in the CP1 (Mellotron, etc.). Now if only I could have afforded both…

Looking for vintage keyboard sounds? You might want to check the “Vintage Keys”
library out - available for purchase and download at the Shop:

http://shop.motifator.com/index.php/voice-libraries/motif-xf/vintage/vintage-keys-xf.html