Hello all!

I’m having an issue with my Motif. In voice mode, I have an organ sound. When I turn the modulation wheel to speed up the Leslie, the organ goes out of tune. Even after I put the wheel back to slow down the leslie, the voice is still out of tune. Is there something wrong with my settings? (By the way, I’m using the voice “FULLY"). Please help!

karlman23 - 30 August 2013 06:30 PM

Hello all!

I’m having an issue with my Motif. In voice mode, I have an organ sound. When I turn the modulation wheel to speed up the Leslie, the organ goes out of tune. Even after I put the wheel back to slow down the leslie, the voice is still out of tune. Is there something wrong with my settings? (By the way, I’m using the voice “FULLY"). Please help!

I am going to venture a wild guess here and suggest that (possibly) you may inadvertently be touching the Ribbon controller when you are operating the Mod Wheel, and the pitch is going off because of that(?)

I had thought that myself as well, but it’s not that.

Are you playing this VOICE from a PRE BANK, or from a USER BANK?

Is this happening with all voices, or with this organ preset only?

You should try to revert your Motif configuration to the factory one. (Of course, don’t forget to save your presets first, otherwise you’ll cry for it!!!). Restoring will help us understand if it’s a hardware issue or if that specific organ settings have been altered in a wrong manner.

So what happens after the factory restore, when you’re trying to use that voice? Do you have the same wheel behavior or this time it works fine?

“Out of tune” is a specific musical term, lets be precise. How much is it out of tune? Is it sharp or flat? Do you actually mean “out of tune”?

Many folks, born after the golden era of keyboards, don’t know what a real Hammond looked liked no less what it sounded like, and the rotary speaker (Leslie) is another mystery, often misunderstood.

Even if you are an old time B3 buff, transitioning to a synth can be the cause for some serious head scratching, too.... So lets take a closer look at this Voice. And whether you know all about B3 tone wheel organs or you know nothing ... Some of this will be news! .......

The Mod Wheel acts as a SPEED CONTROL switch, it either selects FAST or SLOW depending on how the Voice was programmed. It does nothing more than select either Slow or it selects Fast, that’s all it does. There is a position where it flips. The Rotary Speaker does not STOP when the wheel is returned to minimum. It simply returns to the initial speed setting (SLOW). Which the ear/brain does not “remember” - it only compares.

The VOICE “Fully” is initially set so the Rotary Speaker is recalled at SLOW speed when the Voice is recalled.
The low frequency Rotor is precisely spinning at 0.88Hz
The high frequency Horn is precisely spinning at 1.01Hz

When you move the MOD WHEEL up and you pass the midway point, the switch is flipped to FAST. This causes the Rotor and the Horn to begin transitioning to the FAST SETTING.

The low frequency Rotor will be precisely spinning at 6.06Hz
The high frequency Horn will be precisely spinning at 6.73Hz

Where Hz is Hertz or cycles per second.

How long it takes to transition between Slow and Fast, is controlled by the following parameters:
Slow-Fast Transition Time for the Rotor.  The Rotor transitions from 0.88 to 6.06Hz
Slow-Fast Transition Time for the Horn.  The Horn transition from 1.01 to 6.73Hz

When set to zero, the transition time is immediate (like a light switch)
When set to 127, the transition time is very, very slow, like the ‘belts’* were so loose they are hardly grabbing.
* the speakers are physically moved by a series of rubber belts connected to a motor… An actually working Leslie transitioned very quickly, almost immediately. The slightly loose belt transition time was a product flaw that became popular...(seriously), Go figure!?! People started to modify their Leslie cabinets to behave this way… Well with a synth this adjustment is handled with a programmable parameter!

The transition times are set to “41” and “15” in the Voice “Fully”. So the high frequency Horn reaches its Fast speed setting (6.73Hz) before the low frequency Rotor reaches it Fast setting (6.06Hz). Physics supports this… More likely the bigger Rotor would take longer to get up to speed.

A spinning speaker fools the ear/brain into thinking the pitch is changing as sound comes toward you and then moves away from you… We all remember this from elementary school science… So a Leslie speaker is full of basic acoustic science. So yes, the sound does sound “out of tune”. It’s a B3 with a Leslie that is being emulated.

But the point is even if your ear/brain accepts the initial setting for the “Fully” as no pitch variation, it is an aural illusion (like an optical illusion only for your hearing). There is plenty of variation going on as both the Horn and Rotor are in motion, doing the Doppler effect pitch-thing at all times.

Your ear may accept the initially recalled condition as not effected, then after you have moved the wheel forward (recalling the Fast speeds), when you return the wheel to minimum, you expect the rotary speaker which was ALWAYS there to stop.... But it doesn’t, it returns to Rotor Speed = 0.88Hz, and Horn Speed = 1.01Hz, in spite of what your ear/brain remembers incorrectly. Aural illusion.

Try the B3 VOICE called “STOP ROTAR” for a true example of the Slow Speed = Stop (0.00Hz) actual setting! Play the organ STOP ROTAR, flip the wheel up, hear the two transitions taking place.... Eventually bring the wheel back down, and remember flip it like a switch, the transition times take over, and this time the motion slows and Stops completely… Quite different from fast to slow, than when its fast to stop, huh?

Why your ear/brain relate to the initial condition as no effect, on “Fully”, could just be a comparison to the Fast setting. You expect the movement that you somehow initially ignored, to stop completely, but it only returns to the previous condition.

Hope that helps… For more on the Rotary Speaker Effect… And if you are not hooked up in stereo then you’ve never really heard the Rotary Speaker Effect!… Please the following article :

Rotary Speaker explained

OTHER CAUSES:
Of course if you mean really “out of tune” then tell us by how much - sharp/flat - try actually detuning/retuning the Voice and see if that “fixes” it.
Other things that can affect Pitch _ sequence data - if the sequence data does not record the return of the Pitch Bend Wheel to +0000, then the PART on that channel will remain bent until a PB value of +0000 or a reset is received. Stopping a sequence in the middle of a phrase can cause controllers to remain at their most recent value.

A guest musician made a change to the church’s ES8. Now when I move the mod wheel on any sound, the pitch is detuned down. I checked it with a guitar tuner. The only way to correct it is to switch the keyboard on and off. I can’t figure out what he changed to cause this to affect every patch. Any ideas?

Update: A factory reset did not fix the problem.