philwoodmusic - 23 February 2017 01:09 AM

That’s great and highly portable, too. I prefer hardware, good old bomb proof hardware!

Whilst I hope it doesn’t happen, the pay to play thing could affect all types of software, not just music, and I think it could happen when all the companies finally run out of ideas.

Maybe it’s a conspiracy theory, but a lot of DAW manufacturers made masses of money when Apple moved over to intel processors and again when everyone went 64 bit.  That was just so the software could run, but it was presented as an ‘update’ with the straightest face possible.

You have to wonder if software and hardware manufacturers dream up mutually beneficial ideas.

Right, like my grandma used to say.,

Why sell the cow, when you can charge for the milk.

Yes, a lot of commercial software has already gone to the SAAS (Software As A Service) model.  Now that the Cloud is firmly in everybody’s mind and lives, the common person will no longer own software of anykind, software has successfully been converted to a service.  SPEAKING OF CONSPIRACY.,.,

Yamaha stripped the full Midi Sequencer from the Motif added in FM synthesis, more voices, more ram and the super knob, and told us all that real professionals will be using the computer based DAW., But did Yamaha know that at some point in the near future Cubase will be cloud only, and that in the long term musicians will be paying a monthly or yearly service for the privilege of sequencing & editing their midi/wav files.

It couldn’t be that the whole montage thing was a disguised bait & switch move, could it?  (LOL)

I know the montage is supposed to represent the future and the new workflow, but soon that workflow will require the cloud and
annual or monthly fees to Steinberg (for the cubase users).  I hope I’m wrong.

Its kind-a like when you want to take something from a kid, you give them something else shiny to look at as a distraction LOL.

I know, I’m just being cynical here, but I was a MOX only owner when the Montage was released and after looking at the incredible demos (Bad mister’s in particular), reading the manual, seeing all of the awesome possibility, a few days ago I decided against the Montage and bought a new Motif XF8.  Partially because I want a “Music Production Synthesizer” and not just a “Music Synthesizer” and partially because I think Cubase and all the other sequencing/editing software is going to the cloud, and you will have to pay as you go, just to edit those precious tracks.  I already have more dongles than I have usb ports, the thought of forcing me to put the Internet/Cloud in between me and my music is just too much to bare :-(

that 24-track, 8-in digital Tascam seems great. In this past year, I’ve thought a digital multitrack Tascam would be smart. Had no idea they had those high specs. Seriously, I don’t need more tracks, or more INs.

...
not to get this can of worms opened ... but, I do think there is a problem with abandoning the “production” from the music production synthesizer. It’s about a workflow approach. And, the consistency of it. I haven’t fully embraced the hardware sequencer - and as I do, I know there’s no “next-one”. so, knowing me, I’ll do it with one foot, and not both.

which is fine, as currently, as indicated by my original subject, I’m trying to get my DAW back on. I’ve taken my head out of the hole, and seeing what’s up. Dizzying, is what’s up.

...
what I’ve decided is: I’m gonna maintain my primary focus on the DAW I currently know best. PT plain. But, for MIDI stuff, I’ll explore another DAW. And out of the various choices, I’ll let the Cubase-Motif integration steer me for that one. Problem is: I only have enough aptitude for one focus. And I’m already talking multiple focal points. I’ll never learn.

dsetto - 24 February 2017 04:51 AM

that 24-track, 8-in digital Tascam seems great. In this past year, I’ve thought a digital multitrack Tascam would be smart. Had no idea they had those high specs. Seriously, I don’t need more tracks, or more INs.

…
not to get this can of worms opened ... but, I do think there is a problem with abandoning the “production” from the music production synthesizer. It’s about a workflow approach. And, the consistency of it. I haven’t fully embraced the hardware sequencer - and as I do, I know there’s no “next-one”. so, knowing me, I’ll do it with one foot, and not both.

which is fine, as currently, as indicated by my original subject, I’m trying to get my DAW back on. I’ve taken my head out of the hole, and seeing what’s up. Dizzying, is what’s up.

…
what I’ve decided is: I’m gonna maintain my primary focus on the DAW I currently know best. PT plain. But, for MIDI stuff, I’ll explore another DAW. And out of the various choices, I’ll let the Cubase-Motif integration steer me for that one. Problem is: I only have enough aptitude for one focus. And I’m already talking multiple focal points. I’ll never learn.

I dunno, the term conspiracy is too strong, and perhaps not appropriate, but the terms ‘calculated’ or ‘market researched’ might be fitting.  Yamaha took the Production out of “Music Production Synthesizer” and will force (or gently steer) Montage users toward Cubase Pro at $XXX.XX costs.  But eventually Cubase will probably be Cloud only and sold as a service, meaning for the small prices of $XX.XX per month or $XXX.XX per year you can have a Cubase subscription.  Yamaha/Steinberg can basically charge you a little for every midi/wav you edit.

The new workflow that montage user will ultimately face involves:

a high speed connection to the Internet,
a software subscription to Cubase or some other DAW,
a monthly or yearly credit card payment., i.e.  Visa, Paypal, etc.

So if we’re looking long term, the Montage does reflect a change in the economics of how Yamaha/Steinberg is going to make money.  That is, sell the Montage as a gateway into Cubase Cloud.  And once the musician has adopted the new Cloud workflow, they’ll never be free.  The next move will be to move the synthesis engine to the Cloud and the keyboard will just be a controller that requires an Internet connection and a software subscription, before it can make any sound at all.

Yamaha is not selling you the work flow that you want to have, they are gingerly nudging you into the work flow they want you to have. A work flow that cuts hardware costs and ultimately raises profits (which is what any healthy business wants so you can’t fault them for that).  On the other hand they are forcing not only a computer in between you and your music, they are ultimately forcing the Internet, Some Internet provider, music priacy, Digital Rights Management snafus, Cybersecurity concerns etc between you and your music.

Of course this is pessimistic speculation on my part I truly hope that it is not true.

Of course you don’t have to switch to the Montage, and our Motifs will last probably longer than we want to play them, so my current strategy is

Strengthen the Eco system around my Motif that reflects my work flow and not Yamaha’s vision of what my work flow should be or what they want it to be.

Here is my work flow:

Create and record my music using my Motif XF8/MOX8 + Tascam PortaStudio + Yamaha MG124CX

Midi/track editing on the Motif/Mox and Wav editing and simple mastering in the Tascam PortaStudio (done! voila!)

Its simple, complete, allows me to produce my music from mix-to-master and its allow me to export my midi or wav to Finale when I have to do the sheet music thing.

My Motif work flow requires no dongles, no internet connections, no software subscriptions, license keys, no latency, no pay-pal payments, no virus scans, no version/plugin incompatibilities, no computer freezing and reboots, no worries about my music being hacked, no cloud

I just recently purchased my Motif XF8, I’m lucky enough to get one of the last new Black ones available.  I don’t know what Yamaha’s plans are for future musicians who want a “Music Production Synthesizer” Seeing that they no longer produce one.  Maybe they want to send that customer elsewhere.

I’m just glad I have mine :-)