For someone who finds Motif XF to be too complex, would it make sense to upgrade to Montange 8.

I enjoy playing on more on an arranger (PSR910) but miss the pads,arps, synth sounds, layering and the weighted keys.

For a user like me, I think Motif is not user friendly. Yes there are ways to do things but the user interface and the work involved recording multiple performances in a pattern is just too much.

I have made a decision to sell the Motif and am considering Korg PA4x Or Montage 8 cause I’m getting a great discount.

I have played the Montage on display at a music shop and I think it is great so I’m in two minds whether I should go to a simpler world of arrangers or experiment with Montange 8?

Any thoughts, words of wisdom, alternate suggestions? I am on the verge of leaving the world of Yamaha which is all that I’ve known since I was a kid :)

harshalnaidu - 27 September 2016 08:09 PM

For someone who finds Motif XF to be too complex, would it make sense to upgrade to Montange 8. [...]

That’s a difficult question to answer, even if you had given more information. I don’t usually link to that other website, but if you think the Montage is more user-friendly, you might want to look here to gain some perspective:
https://yamahasynth.com/forum/categories/listings/montage

In certain respects the Montage is less complicated than the Motif, but some of that is due to functions just not being available on the Montage. You won’t have to deal with “recording multiple performances in a pattern”, for example, since on a Montage you can’t do that at all. See https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/motion-sequences-as-workaround-for-pattern-like-recording

I think you should make a list of things you want to do with a keyboard, and then determine which ones fit your requirements.

The Montage will not fit your purposes as an arranger keyboard - there is no arranger section! You have to record to a computer. I tried one, but was not all that impressed. The only thing that I like is the FM-X. I found that everything (or close enough) else can be found on the Motif XF8, one of which I have. Just letting you know.

-Max

Thanks for the replies both of you. I looked at the links and as I read through, I experienced the same emotions that I always do on this forum. Bad Mister and the gurus explain and sometimes defend the architecture in such excruciating detail. But for the category of user that I am, I just don’t have the time and the patience to read everything and try stuff out.

How I wish many of the questions were answered as small videos which would have been so much easier to consume and perhaps use the machine better!

I guess I’ll go ahead and try the PA4x which seems to be pretty good for the price compare to Tyros.

I may get flack for this but the synth market needs a disruptor, that can make a keyboard platform that is a great arranger, a flexible workstation with great UX and where you can plug in modules to upgrade capability.

That’s a computer that you described there. ;-)
Jokes aside, I hope you’ll find what you’re looking for.

zpink - 28 September 2016 12:48 AM

That’s a computer that you described there. ;-)
Jokes aside, I hope you’ll find what you’re looking for.

True :) , but I’m thinking some thing more like an Apple TV that’s plug and play and you buy VSTs or styles or samples like you’d buy apps and all the magic happens over Wifi!

harshalnaidu - 28 September 2016 01:00 AM

zpink - 28 September 2016 12:48 AM

That’s a computer that you described there. ;-)
Jokes aside, I hope you’ll find what you’re looking for.

True :) , but I’m thinking some thing more like an Apple TV that’s plug and play and you buy VSTs or styles or samples like you’d buy apps and all the magic happens over Wifi!

There is something like that out there. On phone on a train so can’t Google it at the moment and don’t remember what it is called.

EDIT: At work now so had time to Google ;-)
One of these HW VST hosts is called Receptor. There’s actually a series of them.

The reason Receptor isn’t well known and doesn’t have competitors is because it really is a PITA to use. Plugins meant for computers have graphic interfaces,so you can’t reprogram on the fly...you can call up presets (could be your own, programmed on a computer). It’s also very expensive, though if you are shopping Montage, Tyros, etc. it might not be out of your budget. There are no arranger and workstation sequencing features.

Etc.

Yeah, I didn’t say that it’s a good investment but merely pointed out the existence of such a device. ;-)
Rather pricey for a low spec PC with an UI consisting of a few unmarked buttons.

meatballfulton - 28 September 2016 12:08 PM

The reason Receptor isn’t well known and doesn’t have competitors is because it really is a PITA to use. Plugins meant for computers have graphic interfaces,so you can’t reprogram on the fly...you can call up presets (could be your own, programmed on a computer). It’s also very expensive, though if you are shopping Montage, Tyros, etc. it might not be out of your budget. There are no arranger and workstation sequencing features.

Etc.

Didn’t they just go belly up, out of business, no more service support, zip nada buhbye?

Receptor though interesting was way to expensive and complicated since it was target market was pro or an expert musician.

What would be cool is to see something like NI Komplete + arranger in app platform.

For now, I pulled the trigger on PA4X and added HS8 monitors. Still haven’t told my wife. Maybe she won’t notice:)

I wasn’t able to reply early enough. I was busy. :-(

What I WAS going to say:

Are you satisfied with Korg’s sounds? I always found them to be rather tinny and compressed.

The only weighted-key arranger keyboard that I know of (other than the CVP Clavinovas) is the Kurzweil PC3K8 (I think. I don’t remember for sure - but I thought Kurzweil made a full-size arranger).

-Max

Well, my PA4x hasn’t arrived so I don’t know how it will sound but it is interesting that you mentioned tiny sounds. For the longest time I thought my PSR sounded much better than the other arrangers that I used to try at the music shop.

I actually felt the same way about Kronos until I played it without judging and found the sounds to be excellent.

At least for me, the user experience and ease of adoption is the number 1 consideration cause the instrument will only sound as good as I can and play it.

I fail to understand why one would not have styles and fills in a Kronos or Montage if is made for live play. In fact, the Karma motif software shows that it can be done quite effectively.

I think that the workstations in general are over complicated for my use. And I’d actually argue that the makers of the workstations don’t have the fresh UX/design approach. Something like what apple brought to their devices.

BTW, I’ll definitely post a comparison between my experience of using Motif and a PA4x here and on the Korg forum where I’ll have to make new friends!

harshalnaidu - 29 September 2016 06:51 PM

What would be cool is to see something like NI Komplete + arranger in app platform.

I had been a NI Komplete and other VSTis user for years. While with their multi-GB samples, they sounded detailed, except for a few patches, they did not come close to Motif’s voices in musicality. It’s a nightmare to fit them in a mix; I was spending more time in searching for the ‘the best reverb’, ‘the best sounding DAW’, summing techniques and what not than on doing music. Then I decided to invest in a Motif XF. All problems solved. Now I do MIDI sequencing on my Android phone using my Motif as a sound module and MIDI controller keyboard. Life is so easy.
Now the only worry is that, as Yamaha have decided to discontinue Motif in favour of Montage, which sounds as plastic as the VSTis 🙊 in my opinion, what will I do when I’ll need to replace my Motif XF?

My issue with the Kronos was the UI. For one I did not like touch screens, and I found the whole ui very difficult to use. The piano sounded terrible to me, but I am used to playing baby grand pianos, and CVP clavinovas. Everything except for the organs and strings was not to my liking. I tried it at a local Guitar Center - maybe their speakers were bad or something. It sounded great over the Internet, but in person I did not like it. This is my general opinion of most of Korg’s keyboards, excluding the actual SYNTHESIZERS (MS-20, KingKorg etc.), of course.

I hope that you are satisfied with your purchase.

-Max

EDIT: The thing with not having “styles” on the higher-end keyboards has bugged me too. The technical explanation is, “The PSR/Tyros/BK/PA series arranger workstations are for playing other people’s music. The Kronos/FA/Motif/Montage keyboards are for composing your own music.” I do not agree with this, but this is generally why. My hope is to eventually add a Tyros 5-76 on top of my XF8, so that I can have the best of both worlds. Maybe a good organ keyboard, too. :-)

I’m a late entry to this thread having had flu all week, and it seems to have shifted a bit as it progresses.  3 months ago I bought a mint-condition PSR-910 off a fellow in financial straights.  I’ve never used an arranger, but am fairly proficient with XF , as well as Korg and Roland workstations. 
Long story short, great sounding board for sure, but I was still lost after 1 month of instructional videos, manual reading and forum hopping.  I got lucky again, being in a rural are, and traded straight up for another XF

I checked out 5pinDIN’s first link, and the montage would present a similar steep learning curve for me, without having many features I regularly use with the XF.

Sounds like you are going with the PA4X.  Let us know how that works out for you, and good luck