e.laforge - 08 February 2016 02:18 PM

Check out 12:40 here - I don’t think any other Yamaha synth can do this nowadays… https://youtu.be/wfAxxav4PUU?t=12m41s

What exactly did he do? I couldn’t tell from watching the video, which most likely reflects my relative lack of knowledge when it comes to sound manipulation.

motidave - 08 February 2016 01:48 PM

[...] 8 parts per Perf already solves many of my problems - I used to create specially coded multi-voice voices by utilising AF On/1/2.  but it had alot of limits, first one being I had the same 2 insertion effects for all of the 8 elements.[...]

I can appreciate that you found two Insertion Effects per Voice with the XF limiting, but it’s actually more flexible than just having to use the same routing for all eight Elements.

For each Element, you can select whether its output goes to Ins A, Ins B, or thru (unprocessed by Ins A or B). Also, the Insertion Connect can be parallel, Ins A > B, or Ins B > A ( I’m ignoring Ins L, for vocoder use). That allows Insertion Effects to be applied to some Elements and not others, or a different Effect applied to one group than another, or two Effects to be applied to some Elements, and only one Effect to others, etc.

See Effect Connection Settings on pages 64 and 65 of the XF Reference Manual for details.

Does anyone think that the price will drop at release? Depending on the quantity of pre-sale orders, competition with Kronos, the death of a Yamaha workstation etc. I’m researching prices and my go-to guy tells me that Yamaha (sounds more like the retail company policy) won’t allow them to match discount coupon/code offers from other dealers. I always thought most dealers would match advertised prices. So although I’m a repeat, longstanding customer I’ll have to pay more for the Montage than someone off the street using a free discount code. Seems like if you wanted to stay in business and compete, that you’d take good care of your valued repeat customers. So my rep. said he couldn’t help me and he’d understand if I went elsewhere to buy the Montage. Seems totally nutty to me. Anyone else finding this happening to them? One advantage in staying is the 24/36 mouth financing although other dealers might offer similar plans.

5pinDIN - 08 February 2016 03:23 PM

See Effect Connection Settings on pages 64 and 65 of the XF Reference Manual for details.

In my opinion, the user interface for manipulating effects that you get with the Motif Editor VST is far more intuitive and easier to use than the user interface presented by the XF.

Michael Trigoboff - 08 February 2016 04:41 PM

5pinDIN - 08 February 2016 03:23 PM

See Effect Connection Settings on pages 64 and 65 of the XF Reference Manual for details.

In my opinion, the user interface for manipulating effects that you get with the Motif Editor VST is far more intuitive and easier to use than the user interface presented by the XF.

The Editor might be more intuitive, but IMO only after you’ve read the XF Reference Manual and understand what the Parameters do, as well as explore how the Effects display of the Editor works and represents those Parameters - since the manual for the Editor doesn’t cover that aspect of usage.

By the way, the Element switch (on/off) in the XF is found on the Oscillator display page for each Element. In the Editor, the on/off switches for the Elements are found grouped on the Effect display under “Element Out”, as unlabeled buttons to the left of A/B/Thr. Nice consistency and clarity, Yamaha. :-(

5pinDIN - 08 February 2016 03:23 PM

motidave - 08 February 2016 01:48 PM

[...] 8 parts per Perf already solves many of my problems - I used to create specially coded multi-voice voices by utilising AF On/1/2.  but it had alot of limits, first one being I had the same 2 insertion effects for all of the 8 elements.[...]

I can appreciate that you found two Insertion Effects per Voice with the XF limiting, but it’s actually more flexible than just having to use the same routing for all eight Elements.

For each Element, you can select whether its output goes to Ins A, Ins B, or thru (unprocessed by Ins A or B). Also, the Insertion Connect can be parallel, Ins A > B, or Ins B > A ( I’m ignoring Ins L, for vocoder use). That allows Insertion Effects to be applied to some Elements and not others, or a different Effect applied to one group than another, or two Effects to be applied to some Elements, and only one Effect to others, etc.

See Effect Connection Settings on pages 64 and 65 of the XF Reference Manual for details.

I understand I can assign or not assign two effects to each element and have them either connect (run through both) or not.  what I can’t do is assign two effects to 2 elements that make “Voice 1a”, then 2 different effects to the next 3 elements that make “Voice 1b”, and a third set of effects for “Voice 1c” (hope this makes sense?).  I’m limited to the same two effects for all of the voice elements, and my only choice is to have them on or off. thats what I meant.  I’ve had real instances where I wanted different effects to the different groups of elements.

my initial reading of Montage is this will all become alot more flexible (and easier) for me, because I won’t need these 2 or 3 in 1 Voices when I have 8 parts I can assign to a Performance.  I don’t think I’ve ever played a song I needed 8 different “voices”.  And I can tweak/offset the detailed part-level parameters, etc., at a much more expansive level at the Performance level in Montage.  in XF, there’s fairly narrow limits to what Voice parameters can be offset.  This is the part of the architecture change that really will help a performer like me get creative in my sound.

all the motion sequence stuff ... I don’t understand yet how I’ll use it all.  I’m sure I’ll find clever ways to employ this, albeit not the EDM type uses that dominate the demos out there.  But just what I know already tells me this is a much more usable performance board for me.  In that respect, they are exactly on the right track of evolution.

now if they’d just added a top line B3 model-based engine ... I’d already be in line :) I’ll wait to see what level of improvement in B3s can be generated from Montage, that was a comparative weakness in XF imo.

motidave - 08 February 2016 06:23 PM

I understand I can assign or not assign two effects to each element and have them either connect (run through both) or not.  what I can’t do is assign two effects to 2 elements that make “Voice 1a”, then 2 different effects to the next 3 elements that make “Voice 1b”, and a third set of effects for “Voice 1c” (hope this makes sense?).  I’m limited to the same two effects for all of the voice elements, and my only choice is to have them on or off. thats what I meant.  I’ve had real instances where I wanted different effects to the different groups of elements.

I understand what you’re saying. I’m just trying to help anyone who thinks the Insertion Effects routing per Element is limited to going through both or neither.

Examples:
Some of the eight Elements could have only System Effects (Chorus and Reverb) applied. Others could have Delay plus System. Still others could have Rotary Speaker plus System.
--- or ---
Some Elements could have Flanger plus System. Others could have Flanger and Amp Simulator, plus System. The remainder might have just System.

Those Effects routings don’t necessarily have to be for all the Elements in a “Voice 1a”, Voice 1b”, or “Voice 1c” grouping - the routing could even differ for individual Elements within “Voice 1a”, etc.

I’m certainly not suggesting that would be as good as having the greater flexibility that a Montage might offer, but it also isn’t as restrictive as it might appear at first glance.

I agree with what you said as a good summary of XF which works fine for 95% of the time for me.

5pinDIN - 08 February 2016 05:46 PM

The Editor might be more intuitive, but IMO only after you’ve read the XF Reference Manual

As they say on The Internet, RTFM. :-)

I think the Motif XF Editor VST display is similar enough to what’s described in the XF Reference Manual that the correspondence is pretty clear.

I wasn’t saying that the user interface of the Motif XF Editor VST is perfect, just that it’s better than what you get on the small screen of the XF. Being able to see more at once is really helpful.

But either way you have to understand what you’re looking at.

Michael Trigoboff - 08 February 2016 09:41 PM

5pinDIN - 08 February 2016 05:46 PM

The Editor might be more intuitive, but IMO only after you’ve read the XF Reference Manual

As they say on The Internet, RTFM. :-)

Which is precisely why I posted the relevant page numbers in the XF Reference Manual.

davlippo7 - 08 February 2016 03:54 PM

Does anyone think that the price will drop at release? Depending on the quantity of pre-sale orders, competition with Kronos, the death of a Yamaha workstation etc. I’m researching prices and my go-to guy tells me that Yamaha (sounds more like the retail company policy) won’t allow them to match discount coupon/code offers from other dealers. I always thought most dealers would match advertised prices. So although I’m a repeat, longstanding customer I’ll have to pay more for the Montage than someone off the street using a free discount code. Seems like if you wanted to stay in business and compete, that you’d take good care of your valued repeat customers. So my rep. said he couldn’t help me and he’d understand if I went elsewhere to buy the Montage. Seems totally nutty to me. Anyone else finding this happening to them? One advantage in staying is the 24/36 mouth financing although other dealers might offer similar plans.

Chances of a price drop at release are probably slim to none,
and as the old saying goes, “Slim just left town”.

What dealers sell Montage for is entirely up to them.

Chances of a price drop at release are probably slim to none,
and as the old saying goes, “Slim just left town”.

What dealers sell Montage for is entirely up to them.

I hear ya but I can pick up an 88 Kronos 2 for $2,700 vs $3,700 for the Montage 8. I’m struggling with that decision and looking for a shimmer of hope anywhere I can find it.

Joining the Montage discussion as I accidentally found out about it today. Late to the party, I know.

Anyway, the first impression was the visual one. It does resemble the Motif, but with all the flashy things going on, the touch screen, it might as well be a Korg. I think the “Montage” font is quite hideous and cheap looking, they should’ve kept the Motif font instead. The “Montage” name as a whole doesn’t sound that appealing to me. I’m not going to hate on something that I haven’t tried yet, but just saying, in terms of design the XS and the XF are far more good looking.

Based on the specs, I’m sure that it sounds amazing. I was able to tell the difference when I replaced my XS with the XF, and that wasn’t such a big upate as this is.

At the end of the day, it really comes down to each individual’s needs. I can see why the Montage would be appealing for live playing situations. As far as studio work goes, the Montage does have some sound design oriented festures that seem interesting. In terms of the bigger sound that the Montage has the reality of it is that by the time your music hits iTunes or a streaming service, so many of the characteristics of the sound are lost because of the limitations that these platforms impose, that the Montage might not sound much more detailed than the Motif.

From what I understand it has better, more user friendly integration with DAWs and not just with Cubase, which is a good thing. But the lack of Pattern mode for me is a huge turn off.