I think there is some confusion about the XF6 that I tested. It was not the used one I had intended on purchasing, it was a new display model, same as the XF8 I played. I think that I’m going to try the same test at a different Guitar Center as see what happens. I’m just going to play the factory demo songs and test the output levels from the main outs.
I really didn’t intend to cause any drama with this post, I’m just a consumer trying to avoid having to purchase a separate DA converter for my next workstation if I don’t have to. I’m certain I would not need to if I got the XF8, which is a little out of my price range, but I don’t feel the same way about the XF6 at this moment. Either way I’ll post what I find.

darkspacekeyz - 26 June 2015 07:59 AM

[...]I think that I’m going to try the same test at a different Guitar Center as see what happens. I’m just going to play the factory demo songs and test the output levels from the main outs.[...]

Thanks for being willing to investigate the situation further.

Please do a factory reset on both models as before. It also might be interesting to connect MIDI-Out of the XF8 to MIDI-In of the XF6, in order to play the XF6 via the XF8 keys. If you do that, Velocity Curve should be left set to “normal” on both models.

5pinDIN - 26 June 2015 08:46 AM

darkspacekeyz - 26 June 2015 07:59 AM

[...]I think that I’m going to try the same test at a different Guitar Center as see what happens. I’m just going to play the factory demo songs and test the output levels from the main outs.[...]

Thanks for being willing to investigate the situation further.

Please do a factory reset on both models as before. It also might be interesting to connect MIDI-Out of the XF8 to MIDI-In of the XF6, in order to play the XF6 via the XF8 keys. If you do that, Velocity Curve should be left set to “normal” on both models.

5pinDin,

I stand corrected! After doing a factory reset on both the XF8 and XF6 and playing the demo songs and also the same patches I thought sounded different before, I CONCEDE.

For everyone paying attention to this thread, let me state this clearly:

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE OUTPUTS ON THE XF8 AND XF6.

I think the reason they sounded different before was a problem on the XF6 machine. Once I did a factory reset on it, the problem cleared up and it sound exactly like the XF8 I love. Thanks for making me do this test. I did not feel the need to connect a midi cable to play the XF6 via the XF8, as they both already sounded identical.

Excellent info.. Thanks for the update....

darkspacekeyz - 27 June 2015 08:02 PM

5pinDin,

I stand corrected! After doing a factory reset on both the XF8 and XF6 and playing the demo songs and also the same patches I thought sounded different before, I CONCEDE.

For everyone paying attention to this thread, let me state this clearly:

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE OUTPUTS ON THE XF8 AND XF6.

I think the reason they sounded different before was a problem on the XF6 machine. Once I did a factory reset on it, the problem cleared up and it sound exactly like the XF8 I love. Thanks for making me do this test. I did not feel the need to connect a midi cable to play the XF6 via the XF8, as they both already sounded identical.

Thanks for being open-minded and for posting your recent findings.

I’m just glad the XF7 was never in question, as that is my board :)

motidave - 29 June 2015 12:32 PM

I’m just glad the XF7 was never in question, as that is my board :)

Yes, fortunately there was no doubt that the XF7 sounds just like the XF8, so you were spared the anguish.  :-)

cmayhle - 25 June 2015 02:37 AM

You have fallen into the dark hole of the ‘action differential’.

I own an XF8.  I am a lifelong piano player.  When I play on an XF6, what I hear and feel really sucks!  Why?  Because the action is really unsuited for the long-term feel I have developed between my playing and the more ‘piano-like’ keyboard action of the XF8 .

There is absolutely no difference between the response and sound of the XF6 and the XF8!  IMHO What you are experiencing is the power of keyboard action as it relates to “sound” and “feel”.

I believe it is apparent .  Your playing experience and optimum keyboard “feel” results in a more positive relationship with the XF8 action.

If you decide you’d like to own an XF, I recommend you buy the XF8.

I completely agree - I own an XF7 and an XF8 and the pianos sounded completely different. Even changing the velocity curve on the XF7 made no difference. I have them both connected to Cubase and I swapped the MIDI around so the XF8 keyboard played the XF7 piano and the sound was identical to the XF8 - so yes, it is all down to the keyboard - the FSX keyboard is nowhere near as realistic or responsive as the BH action on the XF8.

With synths, how hard a key is struck determines the velocity data that’s generated. A hammer action (XF8) will respond differently than a synth action (XF6/XF7) due to inertia - acceleration of mass has a different characteristic than deformation of a spring. The result is that playing hammer versus synth actions will generate differing velocity curves, even when the Utility mode Velocity Curve setting is the same. That’s aside from any psychoacoustic phenomena.

Those who’ve played real acoustic piano for a significant time have certain expectations of the touch response. Some of you might find this interesting:
http://www.spurlocktools.com/index_htm_files/Touchwt.pdf

The Motif piano Voices are programmed to switch samples based on key velocity. At which velocity a Soft, Medium, or Hard sample is switched to/from is part of how the Voice responds. Therefore the type of key action (plus the player’s own technique) will affect the sound dynamically.

For those XF6/XF7 users who are dissatisfied with piano Voice response, and where changing the Velocity Curve setting still doesn’t bring joy, there are still options. One possibility is to somewhat edit the Velocity Limit settings of the various Elements to better fit your expectations. Another is to purchase an external device to modify the curve to exactly your taste, such as…
http://www.midisolutions.com/prodvel.htm

Of course, while purchasing an XF8 rather than an XF6/XF7 could satisfy some, others might find a hammer action to be less than ideal for playing non-piano Voices. I’d suggest, if possible, to play both types of actions with various Voices before making a purchase decision.

fascinating post 5pinDIN.
thank you for posting it.
very much looking forward to reading the first link article.
that looks like some extremely in depth explanations of physics and design.
I think I read a while back about the variety of sizing of piano and keyboard keys, width, length and all.
quite a variety.
also thought I would chime in, maybe people would like the Synthogy Ivory expansion pak they could buy.

http://www.synthogy.com/index.php/news/item/33-now-available-synthogy-american-grand-piano-expansion-pack-for-yamaha-motif-xf-production-synthesizer

they would have to also have a 1 GB FB, with room to accommodate it.
I’ve never heard it. I have 2 512 MB FB’s. so I can’t do it, unless I get a 1 GB FB.
I have Ivory II American Concert D for use with another keyboard, and using a computer. I like it ok.

edit: I found the article about key sizes:

http://www.quadibloc.com/other/cnv05.htm