Hi,

I’ve been dealing with a bit of a condundrum in Master Mode.  I’ve loaded my favorite gig patches into the first couple banks, using ‘Memory’ and loading patches.  Also setting the zone switches so that when I want to play the internal patches I’m good, but turning off external transmit so as not to trigger my attached iPad.  It’s working great except for one head scratcher:

Some patches in the Master Mode are screaming loud compared to when I switch over to Voice Mode and play the source patches.  With other Master patches the volume between the Master and Voice modes are about the same.  I have tried messing with setting the volume in Zone 1, adjusting the Output in Voice mode etc., and I can’t seem to find whatever setting I need to even things out.  I actually like the extra boost for some patches, and wish i could find it so I can boost the volume for some others that need it and reduce the volume for the screamers.

I’d wager that if I initialized the hot Master patches they would go back to normal, but again on some I like the boost and since I don’t know where it comes from I wouldn’t know how to get it back. 

Another question:  can I copy Master patches to other locations?  It would be nice to have a ‘hot’ template and a ‘neutral’ template pre-adjusted. 

Thanks!

Botanicus - 16 May 2015 02:25 PM

[...]can I copy Master patches to other locations?  It would be nice to have a ‘hot’ template and a ‘neutral’ template pre-adjusted.

To copy a Master, press [STORE], select a location/destination, press [ENTER].

As to the rest of your post, the word “patch” has a particular meaning in Yamaha nomenclature, and using it to mean something else makes it harder to reply accurately. There are Voices, Performances, Patterns, and Songs, and each of them can be a basis for a Master. A Master takes on the attributes of the Voice, Performance, Pattern, or Song.

Are the Masters you’re referring to all based on single Voices, or are they based on Performances (even if the Performance has just one Part/Voice active), or a mix of those?

5pinDIN - 16 May 2015 05:17 PM

Botanicus - 16 May 2015 02:25 PM

[...]can I copy Master patches to other locations?  It would be nice to have a ‘hot’ template and a ‘neutral’ template pre-adjusted.

To copy a Master, press [STORE], select a location/destination, press [ENTER].

As to the rest of your post, the word “patch” has a particular meaning in Yamaha nomenclature, and using it to mean something else makes it harder to reply accurately. There are Voices, Performances, Patterns, and Songs, and each of them can be a basis for a Master. A Master takes on the attributes of the Voice, Performance, Pattern, or Song.

Are the Masters you’re referring to all based on single Voices, or are they based on Performances (even if the Performance has just one Part/Voice active), or a mix of those?

Thanks!  Yes, I guess copying a Master would be straightforward....I should have easily figured that one out.  In fact I think I did that when I moved Performances I liked into lower banks so not to forget them as I was setting up my live banks A-C.  It’s been a while since I put on my Edit hat.

I guess what I’ve been doing is loading single Voices into the preset Master slots, then hitting ‘Get Name’ or whatever and saving.  This must be why things are louder.  Off the top of my head (keyboard not set up after last night’s gig) two of my ‘loud’ Masters are in spots A8 and A14.  Were they formerly Songs or Performances?  I’ll bet they were....if so I surmise I’ll probably find my additional volume parameters there. 

I was only looking in the Master and Voice settings for answers and clues to this point.

However in those ‘hot’ Masters the ‘Voice’ button is lit, not the Performance button.

Botanicus - 17 May 2015 06:25 PM

However in those ‘hot’ Masters the ‘Voice’ button is lit, not the Performance button.

OK. Are those Voices Preset or User? With one of the Masters selected, press [VOICE] and see which Voice location is selected. Is the volume level difference evident when just switching between pressing [MASTER] and [VOICE]?

Each Master has a Zone Switch.  On the front panel, select the ‘Zone Sw’ tab.  For those you find with a difference in volume, they may have their Zone Switch turned ON.  When on, you can define volumes for all four zones.  This allows you to mix levels for your master.  If Zone Switch is off, then it should default to the Voice volume.

Now that you have determined whether or not the Zone Switch is on, you need to look at the Zone’s volume.  Click on the ‘Edit’ button and select the ‘Preset’ tab.  This displays data for all four zones.  One option is the Volume.  Increase/Decrease the Volume for Zone 1 to your liking.  You are always limited to 127, though.  If your voice’s volume is already at 127, you won’t be able to make it louder through the Master.  If you still want it louder, you will need to edit the volume of each individual voice element.

The Zone Switch reference starts on Page 129 in the Reference Manual if you want more details.

Thanks so much, guys.

Finally had a chance to set up in studio and check.  The Voices are both User and Preset.  For all the Zone Switch was set to On (I set things up on my gig Voice Masters to transmit ON internally and OFF externally so as not to trigger my Korg Module on my iPad).

But I think I can guess as to why certain Voices are so much louder.  These would be the ones (Wurli EP Bright, Breakback Mountain, and Crunchy AS2 for example) where the source Voices are saved at between 55 and 71 Volume Output levels, i.e. below the 100 default Zone Volume setting..  So I’m guessing that the Volume level on the Zone overrides the Volume setting on the Voice when you load it?

Summary:  If I save the Master Zone Volume Level to the same number as the source Voices’ Output Level the Master and Voice volume will be the same.

I had been saving desired Voices to User locations and then saving boosted and lowered Volume Output levels accordingly not knowing that the Zone Output level was overriding these settings.

Am I correct?

That was it!

Yes, the Volume for the Master will be what the setting is for the Zone. I asked whether the Volume was the same when selecting the Master and then pressing [VOICE] because (at least on my XF) the Master’s setting is temporarily carried over in Voice mode. For example, if I assign and STORE Breakback Mountain to a Master, leaving the Zone Volume at the default 100, then press [VOICE], the Breakback Mountain level in Voice mode is at 100 - that is, until I select another Voice, and then go back to Breakback Mountain Voice, at which point the Volume has returned to 52. I’m not sure whether that qualifies as a bug or a feature…

5pinDIN - 18 May 2015 05:17 PM

Yes, the Volume for the Master will be what the setting is for the Zone. I asked whether the Volume was the same when selecting the Master and then pressing [VOICE] because (at least on my XF) the Master’s setting is temporarily carried over in Voice mode. For example, if I assign and STORE Breakback Mountain to a Master, leaving the Zone Volume at the default 100, then press [VOICE], the Breakback Mountain level in Voice mode is at 100 - that is, until I select another Voice, and then go back to Breakback Mountain Voice, at which point the Volume has returned to 52. I’m not sure whether that qualifies as a bug or a feature…

LOL well yes, it obviously confused me.  Didn’t count on the Volume ‘override’ or whatever you call it.  I kept saving Voices at higher volumes and then assumed I might be able to get louder still if I cranked the Volume knob in a Master.  Which it did but not until it knocked it down to 100 first.  Was a pain having to crank the knob right after switching to a solo voice.  Meanwhile Breakback and some organs that had a default of 54 were screaming and distorting at 100.

As some have said the overall output of the MOXF is a little lower than most keyboards, but I just crank the mixer up accordingly and all is well.  I’ve been really happy with the MOXF as a gig machine, love the weight (or lack of it) and the USB integration with the iPad.  I run Korg Module which I use for Organs and Ivory Piano, as well as it’s own Set List mode for backing tracks when I play solo or duo.

This volume thing was the only bugaboo.  Thanks for the help!

Botanicus - 18 May 2015 06:36 PM

[...]As some have said the overall output of the MOXF is a little lower than most keyboards, but I just crank the mixer up accordingly and all is well. [...]

A mixer can certainly help with low levels, but it isn’t always necessary. The Master EQ can be used to raise levels. See the MOXF Reference Manual, [SF2] MEQ on page 143 and [F3] MEQ on page 61 for details. If the goal is to only change the level without significantly affecting frequency response, set the ”Q” to minimum (0.1) and raise Gains uniformly.

Master EQ settings in Utility mode will affect all of the Voices. MEQ settings in Performance mode will apply to only the specific Performance. MEQ settings can also be made for each Pattern/Song in Mixing mode - see pages 116 and 61. The MEQ settings in Performances, Patterns, and Songs will carry over to Masters they’re assigned to.

 

Botanicus -

This volume thing was the only bugaboo.  Thanks for the help!

You’re welcome.

Yet more useful info.  Thanks again!!