I recently took ownership of a MOXF (so I am a “newbie” and this is my first post).

Soundwise, the MOXF is largely compatible with the following formats:
- X6A, X6V, etc - “native” MOXF format
- X3A, X3V, etc - Motif XF format - MOXF can also read these files
- X0A, X0V, etc - Motif XS format - but the MOXF cannot directly read these: they must be converted first, into X3? or X6? format

Now I understand that converting the XS waveforms and voices can be done either using the Motif XF or using John Melas series of tools.

Given that I don’t have access to a Motif XF, purchasing the software is one of my options. I have looked at the demo version or the librarian and while it will allow me to LOAD an XS (X0A, X0V) file, I cannot see an option to SAVE in X3A/X3V or X6A/X6V formats.

Reading various posts, is seems as though I need the “Waveform Editor” to be able to convert from one format to another, even if the conversion is merely for voices using the internal samples/waveforms.

Is the above true?

Given that I don’t have the flash module (and probably not likely to get one for some time as yet) I am wondering whether getting (and paying for) software that effectively is designed to give 90% of its functionality to a feature I will not use is over-capitalising.

Some independant advice would be most appreciated.

Welcome to the Forum!

First, I have the Melas suite of tools, and recommend them.  Some that you don’t think you need or want now WILL be mind changers later, but that is your choice.

I don’t know if the functionality of the DEMO version supports it, but to convert formats with Total Librarian, execute the following:

To convert using Total Librarian: (converts Voices, Drum Kits, Performances, Songs, Patterns, Masters)

Create a new Total Library file (File->New Total Library)
Import your XS file (File->Import Native File)
Transmit to the synth (Edit->Transmit all)

(The above is directly from John Melas)

Let us know how it works.  It may not be available in DEMO version, but is how it’s done in the full version.

Thanks cmayhle

I was aware of the “transmit to synth” option (which is disabled in the demo version of the Total Librarian Software).

This is one option I guess, but it may not always be convenient to have the synth and PC next to one another, hence the question as to whether Total Librarian included a way to save as X3? or X6? format so that the file can be placed onto a USB stick and then loaded into the keyboard.

By the sounds of it, the only way presently to do this is to purchase Waveform Editor (whose strength is really to edit one’s own samples for use with the flash module).

I wouldn’t mind spending the US$60 on Waveform Editor down the track if/when I get a flash board, but adding the $60 so I can have simple functionality to convert a library of files is simply not feasible.

In fact, a “librarian” should be the module that allows you to manage [B]libraries of (in this case) sounds, and the fact I can’t manage a library of sounds and then save them into a X6A or X6V file for my keyboard would have seemed “logical” to me.

Also, it appears to me as though the Yamaha Editor/Librarian also needs the synth connected if you want to edit or even view the parameters associated with a voice, performance, etc.

I have librarian/editor software for Korg Triton and Kurzweil PC3 that allows me to do a range of things (including some conversion of formats), including editing voice/patch parameters without having the keyboard actually plugged into the PC. Of course, you can’t hear the sounds as you make the changes/edits, but the full functionality is there.

Importing a file (X6A, X6V, X3A, X3V, etc) into Total Librarian works, but as soon as I attempt to look at any of the parameters, the software reports that the synth is not plugged in and I therefor see no parameters.

Surely the X6A (or whatever) file should have data within it that describes the parameters for each of the voices, performances, songs, etc and these should be visible to me even if the synth is not presently plugged into the PC?

Then again, perhaps as this is the demo version, perhaps it operates with this limitation (although, if that’s the case, it doesn’t give me much of a demonstration about how good the software functionality is)

I was hoping that, perhaps, the full registered version of Total Librarian allowed the saving of X6A/X6V files....your response makes me believe otherwise.

Incidently...thanks for the prompt response. It is much appreciated

:-)

AlBassKeys - 19 April 2015 03:44 AM

[...]Also, it appears to me as though the Yamaha Editor/Librarian also needs the synth connected if you want to edit or even view the parameters associated with a voice, performance, etc.

I have librarian/editor software for Korg Triton and Kurzweil PC3 that allows me to do a range of things (including some conversion of formats), including editing voice/patch parameters without having the keyboard actually plugged into the PC. Of course, you can’t hear the sounds as you make the changes/edits, but the full functionality is there.[...]

The Yamaha Editors for the XS, XF, and MOXF only save data as editor files - .X0E, .X3E, and .X6E respectively.

However, there’s quite a difference between the XS and XF Editors, and the one for the MOXF, when it comes to importing files. The XS one will of course import .X0E, but also .X0A, X0V, and editor files from the Rack XS, ES/Rack, and MO - the XF one adds to those .X3E, .X3A, .X3V, and S90XS/S70XS “All"/"All Voice”. The MOXF one will only import .X6E files. When it came to the MOXF Editor, perhaps Yamaha decided to “let John Melas do it”.

Editing can be done on imported data without the synth connected, at least with the XS and XF Editors. I don’t have a .X6E file to verify that with the MOXF Editor.

Oh thanks 5pinDIN

I haven’t as yet loaded the Yamaha Editor...perhaps I should look at that too!

A pity Yamaha didn’t at least go down the path of allowing the relevant compatible sound sets be used with the Editor (as with the Motif XF software). Pretty ordinary from them I think!

John Melas’ software looks very good and I will definitely consider very seriously purchasing it if I find I need to add sample-playback capability down the track.

With respect to the Yamaha Editor, I assume it runs as a stand-alone and not simply as a VST plugin (ie. Cubase does not need to be installed for the Yamaha Editor to function)?

AlBassKeys - 19 April 2015 11:33 AM

[...]With respect to the Yamaha Editor, I assume it runs as a stand-alone and not simply as a VST plugin (ie. Cubase does not need to be installed for the Yamaha Editor to function)?

The current version will run either way.

Thanks again for the information, 5pinDIN

But again, I think that the problem I originally stated remains.

When I use the Yamaha Editor (even in the case of the Motif XF editor which will allow importing of a number of different file types) any changes I make to a file can only be saved in a single format - X0E, X3E or X6E (however the case may be).

There is no reference to the ability to load X6E data files directly from a USB device within my MOXF manual, so I will HAVE to have my synth plugged directly into the PC in order to make use of the editor functionality!

There have been times where I have had to go away from a venue (after setting up) and make late changes to some of my setups.

On my Korg and Kurzweil, I have simply been able to go off somewhere with an SD or xD card in hand, access a PC and make any required changes on my memory sticks, return to the synth later that evening, and simply load my data together with the edits.

This seems to be something that simply cannot be done with the Motif series of keyboards since the software editor will save ONLY in “editor” format and not as an “ALL” or “ALL VOICE” or “ALL Song” format (for example).

The ONLY software that SEEMS to be able to do this, is the John Melas “Waveform Editor” - and, as stated, while I don’t have flash memory installed in the synth, effectively 90% of the software is redundant to me.

This surely has to be a major limitation in the Yamaha software.

Incidentally, the Korg I have is actually the entry-level TR (not a “full-blown” Triton) and even the software here allows such simply means of data transfer (having to have a PC available in order to edit a file and then transmit it to a device is not, to me, akin to data transfer at all)

AlBassKeys - 19 April 2015 12:40 PM

[...]On my Korg and Kurzweil, I have simply been able to go off somewhere with an SD or xD card in hand, access a PC and make any required changes on my memory sticks, return to the synth later that evening, and simply load my data together with the edits.

This seems to be something that simply cannot be done with the Motif series of keyboards since the software editor will save ONLY in “editor” format and not as an “ALL” or “ALL VOICE” or “ALL Song” format (for example).

This is a limitation of the MOXF - the Motif XS and XF can directly load Yamaha Editor files.

 

AlBassKeys -

The ONLY software that SEEMS to be able to do this, is the John Melas “Waveform Editor” - and, as stated, while I don’t have flash memory installed in the synth, effectively 90% of the software is redundant to me.

This surely has to be a major limitation in the Yamaha software.

As I previously stated, apparently Yamaha decided to “let John Melas do it”.

Contrary to what many people seem to believe, the MOXF is not a Motif XF minus sampling and one flash module slot. While the MOXF has the sound engine of the XF, it’s missing some features of the Motif XF that are obvious, and some that are subtle. For many users the subtle ones don’t matter, but for some it does.

5pinDIN -

As I previously stated, apparently Yamaha decided to “let John Melas do it”.

Contrary to what many people seem to believe, the MOXF is not a Motif XF minus sampling and one flash module slot. While the MOXF has the sound engine of the XF, it’s missing some features of the Motif XF that are obvious, and some that are subtle. For many users the subtle ones don’t matter, but for some it does.

Thanks again for the response - very informative for a newbie!

I guess I can understand the limitation in the synth hardware (inability to load “Editor” files and all) but I guess it’s also a bit of a bugger that the software for the MOXF will not allow a file to be saved in such a way as to allow true “remote” management of MOXF data.

What remains bemusing is that while a MOXF cannot read X6E files, which are MOXF-specific, a MOXF can read files specifically for the Motif XF (X3A, X3V) and a MOX (X4A, X4V) which are NOT native to the MOXF.

This makes me believe that the decision by Yamaha is based purely on “commercial” principles and, perhaps, not technical ones.

Thank goodness that options exists due to the efforts of people like John Melas and others who have taken the time to convert file formats for the Motif community.

This forum has been a great introduction/education for me on my new acquisition.

Thanks to 5pinDIN and cmayhle for answering my questions.

AlBassKeys - 19 April 2015 07:55 PM

[..]What remains bemusing is that while a MOXF cannot read X6E files, which are MOXF-specific, a MOXF can read files specifically for the Motif XF (X3A, X3V) and a MOX (X4A, X4V) which are NOT native to the MOXF.

It makes sense that MOX data is compatible with the MOXF, since the MOX is the MOXF’s predecessor. Yamaha was likely “banking” on a certain percentage of MOX owners upgrading to a MOXF.

Compatibility with XF data is not complete - it is, for Voices, Performances, Arps, Waveforms, and Mix Templates, but not for Masters or sequencer data (Patterns/Songs). If the MOXF sequencer had been made compatible with the XF, it would have become incompatible with the MOX.

 

AlBassKeys -

This makes me believe that the decision by Yamaha is based purely on “commercial” principles and, perhaps, not technical ones.[...]

The file compatibility meant completely new Voice libraries didn’t have to be created for the MOXF - numerous preexisting ones could be used. So yes, if nothing else, that’s certainly good for marketing.

As to why the MOXF can’t load .X6E files, that just might be inexplicable. Perhaps the engineering department ran out of time, money, or room to store the necessary translation tables in the firmware…

5pinDIN - 19 April 2015 09:05 PM

As to why the MOXF can’t load .X6E files, that just might be inexplicable. Perhaps the engineering department ran out of time, money, or room to store the necessary translation tables in the firmware…

Yep...understand.

Still, there’s seems to be no real excuse for not offering to be able to save files in a MOXF “loadable” form using their PC software.

;-)

Thanks again, 5pD - you’ve gone above and beyond to offer context and education.

I bought a MOXF8 recently… I haven’t been using any other Yamaha keyboards.. So this is my first… My question is .. Will motif xf work (X6A)???

Georgy Dee - 25 April 2016 06:15 PM

I bought a MOXF8 recently… I haven’t been using any other Yamaha keyboards.. So this is my first… My question is .. Will motif xf work (X6A)???

Your question is a bit unclear.  X6A files are native to the MOXF, so of course the MOXF opens them.

The Motif XF will not open MOXF files (.X6A for example), if that is your question.

cmayhle - 25 April 2016 06:44 PM

Georgy Dee - 25 April 2016 06:15 PM

I bought a MOXF8 recently… I haven’t been using any other Yamaha keyboards.. So this is my first… My question is .. Will motif xf work (X6A)???

Your question is a bit unclear.  X6A files are native to the MOXF, so of course the MOXF opens them.

The Motif XF will not open MOXF files, if that is your question.

Yes that was my question

Do u know a way to make it work.. Coz I’m going abroad for a gig.. I’m getting a motif xf… The don’t have a moxf..

I want X6A to work on Motif xf