I am purchasing a Kawaii MP7 in the near future: while my primary reason is for the 88 key “feel”, along with excellent piano and EPs the MP7 has a nice Hammond sound and can receive MIDI for each virtual organ drawbar.

Considering the pros and cons of upgrading to a used XF as well (have MO-X now).

Can the XF’s faders - with XF a Slave - control a Master’s continuous voice parameters, e.g. Hammond drawbars?

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jazz.preest - 22 January 2015 11:46 PM

I am purchasing a Kawaii MP7 in the near future: while my primary reason is for the 88 key “feel”, along with excellent piano and EPs the MP7 has a nice Hammond sound and can receive MIDI for each virtual organ drawbar.

Considering the pros and cons of upgrading to a used XF as well (have MO-X now).

Can the XF’s faders - with XF a Slave - control a Master’s continuous voice parameters, e.g. Hammond drawbars?

Before I reply to your question, I’d like to better understand what your intent is.

Is it that you want the eight XF sliders to be able to control the Kawai’s Hammond nine drawbars while you are playing the Kawai’s keyboard?

Are you going to be playing the XF via the Kawai’s keyboard? Is that why you specifically wrote “with XF a Slave”?

Please provide more details as to how you envision the Kawai and the Motif interacting.

meatballfulton - 23 January 2015 01:00 PM

No the faders cannot be used for that.

Thank you, meatballfulton.  It seems clear that, in order to control the Kawaii’s virtual “B3 drawbars”, the Motif XF must be in Master mode.

5pinDIN - 23 January 2015 02:15 PM

Before I reply to your question, I’d like to better understand what your intent is.

Is it that you want the eight XF sliders to be able to control the Kawai’s Hammond nine drawbars while you are playing the Kawai’s keyboard?

Hmmm.  Eight sliders, nine drawbars; that’s an issue, isn’t it...doesn’t seem I’ll be able to control one of the Kawaii virtual B3 drawbars if using a Motif XF…

Are you going to be playing the XF via the Kawai’s keyboard? Is that why you specifically wrote “with XF a Slave”?

Please provide more details as to how you envision the Kawai and the Motif interacting.

OK.  There are two environments - “Bedroom Studio” and “Live Performance”. 

The scenario that triggered this question was “how would I segue from a piano/EP take - say Dave Brubeck’s “Blue Rhondo a la Turk” (Kawaii keyboard front & center) - to a Jimmy Smith B3 cover -say ‘Root Down and Get It’ or ‘Papa’s Got a Brand New Bag’(Motif XF keyboard, maybe the Kawaii B3 voice).

In the “Bedroom Studio” scenario, it seems there is no issue - simply decide on what keyboard will be the Master and manually set things up that way.  Or just use Cubase to route MIDI via MIDI tracks.

In the “Live Performance” scenario, the question is how to seamlessly seque from a Kawaii Master scenario (e.g. piano/EP cover) to a Motif XF Master mode scenario (e.g. organ/synth cover). 

Possible solutions seem to be:  Manual? (introduce the next song while making the necessary changes); Hardware? (the MIDI Solution Event Processor you noted in a thread) or Software?(found a thread in which Dave Polich suggested Digital Performer).

jazz.preest - 25 January 2015 04:41 PM

OK.  There are two environments - “Bedroom Studio” and “Live Performance”. 

The scenario that triggered this question was “how would I segue from a piano/EP take - say Dave Brubeck’s “Blue Rhondo a la Turk” (Kawaii keyboard front & center) - to a Jimmy Smith B3 cover -say ‘Root Down and Get It’ or ‘Papa’s Got a Brand New Bag’(Motif XF keyboard, maybe the Kawaii B3 voice).

In the “Bedroom Studio” scenario, it seems there is no issue - simply decide on what keyboard will be the Master and manually set things up that way.  Or just use Cubase to route MIDI via MIDI tracks.

In the “Live Performance” scenario, the question is how to seamlessly seque from a Kawaii Master scenario (e.g. piano/EP cover) to a Motif XF Master mode scenario (e.g. organ/synth cover). 

Possible solutions seem to be:  Manual? (introduce the next song while making the necessary changes); Hardware? (the MIDI Solution Event Processor you noted in a thread) or Software?(found a thread in which Dave Polich suggested Digital Performer).

I’m still not sure that I have a complete picture of the anticipated situation(s), but I’ll make some assumptions, based partially on having downloaded the MP7 manual…

It’s my understanding that the MP7 has a graded hammer action keyboard, and decent sounding pianos. I’d therefore expect that for piano you’d use the MP7’s keyboard to play its own internal sounds.

I’d expect that for playing the MP7’s B3 you might want to use the XF’s keyboard, rather than a hammer action, and would therefore connect the XF’s MIDI-Out to the MP7’s MIDI-In to accomplish that. If the XF was in Master mode, that would also allow control of eight of the drawbars via CC.

If my assumptions are correct, you’d just need a few seconds to select a Master on the XF. It appears that the MP7 will receive Program Change MSB/LSB via MIDI, so an XF Master could set up the MP7.

By the way, would you have the Kawai MP7 and the Motif XF each connected to a separate stereo pair of inputs on an external mixer, or might you use the A/D Input of the XF for the MP7’s output, or the Line In connections of the MP7 for the XF’s output? The latter looks interesting for creating an MP3 or WAV that includes the MP7 and XF together.

I realize that there are other scenarios which might not fit neatly into what I assumed, but they likely could be accommodated.

By the way, after looking over the manual, the MP7 “sounds” interesting. Online reviews are mostly positive, although I did read a few less-glowing remarks. However, the price seems quite reasonable for what the MP7 seems to deliver. Have you actually played one?

Thank you, 5PinDIN, for helping me explore a future two keyboard setup..

5pinDIN - 25 January 2015 07:38 PM

I’m still not sure that I have a complete picture of the anticipated situation(s), but I’ll make some assumptions, based partially on having downloaded the MP7 manual…

It’s my understanding that the MP7 has a graded hammer action keyboard, and decent sounding pianos. I’d therefore expect that for piano you’d use the MP7’s keyboard to play its own internal sounds.

Yes, use the MP7 keyboard whenever I’m playing a piano or electric piano…

I’d expect that for playing the MP7’s B3 you might want to use the XF’s keyboard, rather than a hammer action, and would therefore connect the XF’s MIDI-Out to the MP7’s MIDI-In to accomplish that. If the XF was in Master mode, that would also allow control of eight of the drawbars via CC.

Yes, will want to play organ/synth using a synth-action like Motif XF…

If my assumptions are correct, you’d just need a few seconds to select a Master on the XF. It appears that the MP7 will receive Program Change MSB/LSB via MIDI, so an XF Master could set up the MP7.

That’s my take as well after reading the MP7 manual.  Am thinking, after further review of the manual, that I am unlikely to ever need to adjust the XF control sliders ‘on the fly” as I can recall up to 256 MP7 SETUPs with the drawbars set however I want them…

By the way, would you have the Kawai MP7 and the Motif XF each connected to a separate stereo pair of inputs on an external mixer, or might you use the A/D Input of the XF for the MP7’s output, or the Line In connections of the MP7 for the XF’s output? The latter looks interesting for creating an MP3 or WAV that includes the MP7 and XF together.

Cool.  Had been thinking the A/D input of the Mo-X (or XF if I decide to upgrade); hadn’t considered the other way around…

By the way, after looking over the manual, the MP7 “sounds” interesting. Online reviews are mostly positive, although I did read a few less-glowing remarks. However, the price seems quite reasonable for what the MP7 seems to deliver.
Have you actually played one?

I am fortunate to have been able to play an MP7 (colleague of my sister, who’s a music teacher) as no one carries the Kawaii stage piano line here.  Originally, was going to spring for Casio’s Px350 (;)) after playing the Px350 , the CP40, CP4 and the RD800 - didn’t find the differences ("feel") in the keybeds enough to drive me to spend more than the Px350. 

But really liked the MP7 feel (also liked piano, EPs, the Hammond emulation approach, strong editing capabilities, looks good...a bit heavy, but, it will mainly be a studio tool with an occasional outing).  Am going to wait for a Guitarcenter 15% off day, then pop for the MP7.

Re reviews, the only negative review I’ve read is from a recent Amazon customer review (Jet, Jan 9,2015) who claims to have purchased the MP7, “liked it for several months” until the keyboard began to break down; claims he went back and purchased a CP4...quality issues.  Hmmm.  As Kawaii has an excellent reputation on their earlier MPs, think I’ll take that critique with a grain of salt...could be abuse on the road.

Thanks again.

See page 217 in the Reference Manual.

Knob and Slider Settings—[F5] KnobSlider

From this display, you can determine which Control
Change numbers are transmitted to an external/internal
tone generator when you use the Knobs and Sliders for
each Zone.

This parameter is available only when the Knob Control Assign
parameter is set to “zone” in the Other display (page 214) of
the Common Edit. In other words, this parameter is available
only when all the lamps of the [SELECTED PART CONTROL]
and [MULTI PART CONTROL] are turned off.

1. Control Knob No.
Determines which Control Change numbers are
transmitted when you use the Knobs for each Zone. The
function name is automatically shown below the number
you select.
Settings: 0 – 95

2. Control Slider No.
Determines which Control Change numbers are
transmitted when you use the Control Sliders for each
Zone. The function name is automatically shown below the
number you select.
Settings: 0 – 95

Don’t get hung up on the name Master Mode...the XF can in fact be receiving MIDI input in this mode on all 16 MIDI channels while still letting you use the sliders to send CC messages to external equipment. Master mode still lets you call up the Motif itself in Voice, Pattern or Song mode within the Master which can then be saved as a preset. Yeah, that’s rather confusing. Just don’t touch any of the keys (ha ha).

Setting up all eight sliders to a single zone is not possible, but you can create eight zones all to the same MIDI channel (that of your Kawai) so that each zone has one slider and one knob, making all eight send on the same channel but with different CCs. It’s not a real intuitive way to set up the zones but it should work.

meatballfulton - 26 January 2015 10:24 AM

See page 217 in the Reference Manual[...]

Setting up all eight sliders to a single zone is not possible, but you can create eight zones all to the same MIDI channel (that of your Kawai) so that each zone has one slider and one knob, making all eight send on the same channel but with different CCs. It’s not a real intuitive way to set up the zones but it should work.

Checked in the Kawaii MP7 manual, and yes indeed, that will work as the Kawaii allows you to receive data as MIDI CC# or MIDI Ch for the organ drawbars. 

I suspect I’d have to set up a Motif XF with 7 “no-fly” zones (low note C8, high note C-2) and 1 full keyboard zone that sends the MSB/LSB...hmmm...and use 2 knobs for the 16’ and 1’ drawbars to get all nine.

Well, there is a workaround, but would have preferred the capability to map the eight sliders/knobs within the same zone.

Not really a Con, but certainly not a Pro for upgrading to the Motif XF.

Thanks!

In further looking over the manual, it appears that the MP7’s own controls can be used to directly adjust the nine drawbars. See page 33.

http://www.kawaius.com/main_links/digital/MP7/MP7_EN_20131211_R100.pdf

jazz.preest - 25 January 2015 09:01 PM

Am thinking, after further review of the manual, that I am unlikely to ever need to adjust the XF control sliders ‘on the fly” as I can recall up to 256 MP7 SETUPs with the drawbars set however I want them…

though it can also be useful to adjust drawbars as you play. But as you’ve seen in this thread, you will be able to do that, whether from an XF (though as a “master” not a “slave"), or from the MP7 itself.

5pinDIN - 27 January 2015 03:18 PM

In further looking over the manual, it appears that the MP7’s own controls can be used to directly adjust the nine drawbars. See page 33.

http://www.kawaius.com/main_links/digital/MP7/MP7_EN_20131211_R100.pdf

Yes.  On reading: 4 drawbars, 4 knobs, a 2 button solution for the last drawbar.  Hmmm.  Suggest an evolutionary approach to “building a solution” - buy the Kawaii, explore if I’m comfortable with the “As-Is”, go from there.

As always, I appreciate your input...cheers, 5PinDIN.

anotherscott - 27 January 2015 05:04 PM

[...} though it can also be useful to adjust drawbars as you play. But as you’ve seen in this thread, you will be able to do that, whether from an XF (though as a “master” not a “slave"), or from the MP7 itself.

Yes.  Thank you, anotherscott, for your input here as well on the Keyboard Corner; I’ve received so much value from both threads...so, in satisfying my “project manager” needs, I now, with everyone’s generous help, have an approach I’m comfortable with (minimize number of keyboards, minimize costs, achieve player/composer/arranger objectives):

1. Purchase the Kawaii MP7
2. Explore the new setup (Cubase 7.5, Kawaii MP7, MOX6) for a while
3. If I feel I am likely to improve my organ/synth results & workflow, purchase a 9 fader MIDI controller (my best guess right now:Nektar Panorama P1 vs. Behringer X-Touch Compact) and Bome’s MIDI Translator Pro software (translates unused MIDI CC to SysEx Message - any incoming message to any outgoing message).
4. If action 3 doesn’t spin my wheels, dump on ebay.

Bottom line: I won’t be upgrading to used Motif XF based on my learnings on this thread as well as the Keyboard Corner thread; there is a less expensive and more satisfying alternative that supports my near-medium term jazz-influenced playing, composing and arranging objectives.

Thanks to all that have contributed their time to helping me think through this “what is the right rig” challenge. 

Cheers!  “GO HAWKS!!!!” Yes, I’m a Seattleite ;)

a clonewheel of some sort is exactly what I would pair it with, since the unweighted action and drawbar-organ are the two things most notably needed in a MOX8 complement. A Hammond SK1 would be great at 15 pounds, or an Electro 3 if you’d rather have user samples than real drawbars, or a Stage 2 at 21 lbs if you also want VA synth and aftertouch, or a Kronos for pretty much everything (though the “drawbars” are faders, and you’re up to 28 pounds). etui samsung galaxy s6 pas cher coque galaxy s6 personnalisable

drlabing - 29 January 2015 06:11 AM

a clonewheel of some sort is exactly what I would pair it with, since the unweighted action and drawbar-organ are the two things most notably needed in a MOX8 complement. A Hammond SK1 would be great at 15 pounds, or an Electro 3 if you’d rather have user samples than real drawbars, or a Stage 2 at 21 lbs if you also want VA synth and aftertouch, or a Kronos for pretty much everything (though the “drawbars” are faders, and you‘re up to 28 pounds).

Hey, drlabing,

Appreciate your thinking - would be seriously thinking about a dedicated “clonewheel of some sort” if I was doing frequent sets requiring organ sounds (say Gospel or Jimmy Smith Tribute or...)

However, as it is, that’s not where I’m at right now.  Cheers!

EDITED: Afterthought: “Where I’m at right now” is wanting to develop my “split key” technique.  For those interested in the same, check out this Tony Monaco youtube video.