hey gang,
I love the sounds on my XF8.
but, I have read in threads here that the SA and SA2 sounds in the Tyros are even better.
I will not be buying a Tyros. too much money.
that said, I have read threads recently that make me wonder if anybody has any thoughts about this:
I have seen it said, that the PSR-S950 has most of the sounds of the Tyros at a much cheaper price.
(I also see that there is a feature with the PSR-950 where you can add sounds with a usb flash drive. I would guess its the same deal with the Tyros.)
what I want to know is, if there is a way to get these SA and SA2 sounds and use them on a Motif XF8.
I think the answer is no. (people ask for Yamaha to make an SA and SA2 module.....and Yamaha says no.)
ok, whats the scoop with the PSR-S950?
I’m thinking that it is the answer.
can anyone out there please possibly tell me any thoughts about, lets say, hooking a PSR-S950 up with a MIDI cable, to a Motif XF8 and........something...whatever........????
trying to get creative and be resourceful here, eh??????
love to get a Tyros, for the SA and SA2 sounds.
just not gonna happen soon, because of large cost.
thanks for reading,
Chas

Hi --

I play both a MOX6 and an S950.

Starting with the XS, Yamaha added Expanded Articulation (XA). Without diving into too much detail, XA allows control over articulations using the assignable function buttons. XA also detects and triggers samples to handle legato technique. The Motif/MOX player has precise control over when an articulation is sounded and the Motif/MOX programmer can construct new voices using XA (or tweak existing voices).

The S950 (and Tyros) monitor and analyze the notes played by the musician. The Tyros, in addition, has two panel buttons to control articulation. The workstation software determines which articulation to sound and when based upon what the musician has played on the keyboard or (optional) controllers.

Both the S950 and Tyros implement Super Articulation (SA) voices. SA voices and XA voices use roughly comparable sample playback technology (AWM). New samples can only be installed onto an S950 through an expansion pack (proprietary format). Yamaha has not released an expansion pack editor. S950 voice editing is limited to “quick edit” envelope tweaks; you cannot get to the element level on the S950. Motif/MOX voice editing is vastly deeper.

Super Articulation 2 (SA2) voices on the Tyros are a whole other beast. SA2 uses Articulation Element Modeling (AEM) to “stitch” samples together in real-time in response to what the musician plays. The Motif XS (and later) do not have the software to analyze the musicians playing/gestures and it does not have the AEM sound engine. SA2 is not implemented on the S950. SA2 is a very complicated critter because it takes note timing into consideration. (See Yamaha’s patents on AEM.)

So, voices/samples cannot simply be ported from S950 (or Tyros) to Motif. You can, however, use XA to make your own SA-style voices without any of the front-end analysis of musical gestures/control.

Hope this helps—pj

Besides information you’ll receive here, you might want to check out Synth Zone - specifically this forum:
http://www.synthzone.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/forums/37/1/General_Arranger_Keyboard_Foru
A search there on “PSR-S950” will turn up several threads.

Secondarily, there’s this one:
http://www.synthzone.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/forums/39/1/Yamaha_Arranger_Keyboard_Forum

You also might want to become a Synth Zone member, and ask specific questions.

pjd - 20 October 2014 02:21 PM

Hi --

I play both a MOX6 and an S950.

Starting with the XS, Yamaha added Expanded Articulation (XA). Without diving into too much detail, XA allows control over articulations using the assignable function buttons. XA also detects and triggers samples to handle legato technique. The Motif/MOX player has precise control over when an articulation is sounded and the Motif/MOX programmer can construct new voices using XA (or tweak existing voices).

The S950 (and Tyros) monitor and analyze the notes played by the musician. The Tyros, in addition, has two panel buttons to control articulation. The workstation software determines which articulation to sound and when based upon what the musician has played on the keyboard or (optional) controllers.

Both the S950 and Tyros implement Super Articulation (SA) voices. SA voices and XA voices use roughly comparable sample playback technology (AWM). New samples can only be installed onto an S950 through an expansion pack (proprietary format). Yamaha has not released an expansion pack editor. S950 voice editing is limited to “quick edit” envelope tweaks; you cannot get to the element level on the S950. Motif/MOX voice editing is vastly deeper.

Super Articulation 2 (SA2) voices on the Tyros are a whole other beast. SA2 uses Articulation Element Modeling (AEM) to “stitch” samples together in real-time in response to what the musician plays. The Motif XS (and later) do not have the software to analyze the musicians playing/gestures and it does not have the AEM sound engine. SA2 is not implemented on the S950. SA2 is a very complicated critter because it takes note timing into consideration. (See Yamaha’s patents on AEM.)

So, voices/samples cannot simply be ported from S950 (or Tyros) to Motif. You can, however, use XA to make your own SA-style voices without any of the front-end analysis of musical gestures/control.

Hope this helps—pj

wow pj,
holy cats. thats helps a lot. super grateful for your amazing answer.
“You can, however, use XA to make your own SA-style voices without any of the front-end analysis of musical gestures/control.”

would you possibly comment on whether you think you can use XA to make voices that sound as good as the SA and SA2 voices?

5pinDIN - 20 October 2014 02:39 PM

Besides information you’ll receive here, you might want to check out Synth Zone - specifically this forum:
http://www.synthzone.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/forums/37/1/General_Arranger_Keyboard_Foru
A search there on “PSR-S950” will turn up several threads.

Secondarily, there’s this one:
http://www.synthzone.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/forums/39/1/Yamaha_Arranger_Keyboard_Forum

You also might want to become a Synth Zone member, and ask specific questions.

hey 5pinDIN,
super grateful to you for your (as usual), excellent very helpful past. I joined that forum a while back. I just logged in there, and will check it out now.
thanks again,
Charlie

this has been a post for many requests!

The tyros has some impressive sound articulations SA1 (creating an articulation on the top of the note) and SA2 (creating an articulation at the end of the note).

However they tyros has a script based sound e.g. if you press key x then you will get effect y.

Now the point of Yamaha is that motif will bring the ability to create a new sound based on the samples that are provided. I.e. you can in theory create SA2 articulations using the motif architecture.

However (and this is where I think Yamaha is failing) the sound gestures required by tyros are more then enough for a standard “sound creator”. Meaning that the average motif user is more then happy too use a a “tyros sound architecture” to bet by.

I follow you, until here:
“However (and this is where I think Yamaha is failing) the sound gestures required by tyros are more then enough for a standard “sound creator”. Meaning that the average motif user is more then happy too use a a “tyros sound architecture” to bet by.”
could you possibly re-phrase or elaborate?
(thank you for your initial reply. :))

My points is: I think that the major part of motif users would like to have SA1/SA2 sounds right out of the box. Not all motif users want to program their sounds.

In an ideal world the combination of arps (motif) and superartikulation (tyros) is a perfect marriage.

thank you.
totally agree.
sounds to me like a lot of people here want this.

btw I was at my local shop and tried out the new tyros 5. Talk about upgrade (from tyros 4) new amazing sounds, live drums (sounds great), sessionstrings, etc...etc and then we have the motif-team their upgrade is white paint job on an old motif xf? Come on yammy you can do better!

roger that.
oh well, make the best we can with what we have to work with, and hope that yammy comes thru for us someday. :)

Hi—

First, just wanted to post some background information from the S950 and Tyros 5 manual. The descriptions of Super Articulation (SA) and Super Articulation 2 (SA2) are quoted from the Tyros5 manual. The voice descriptions (e.g., JazzArtist guitar voice) are taken from the S950 itself—when you press [INFO] in the voice selection screen, the S950 displays a description of the selected voice. These descriptions show the kind of SA effects supported by the S950. The S950 does not have front panel articulation buttons; a foot pedal can be assigned to trigger SA effects.

The description of Articulation Element Modeling (AEM) is from the Tyros 5 manual. It is a pretty good concise description of what AEM (SA2) does, but is a gross simplification WRT Yamaha’s patents. AEM does a lot of cross-fading and sample whacking. Plus, the concise description downplays the timing analysis in order to avoid unwanted latency effects and to detect releases.

-- pj

Super Articulation voices

These Voices provide many benefits with great playability and expressive control in real time.  For example, with the Saxophone Voice, if you play a C and then a D in a very legato way, you will hear the note change seamlessly, as though a saxophone player played it in a single breath.  Similarly with the Concert Guitar Voice and play the D note strongly, the D note would sound as a “hammer on,” without the string being plucked again. Depending on how you play, other effects such as “shaking” or breath noises (for the Trumpet Voice), or finger noises (for the Guitar Voice) are produced.

JazzArtist: Super Articulation provides realistic guitar phrasing: Legato notes played within an interval of a 4th sound as a hammer on, pull off or slide. The last note has a release noise. fret noise is added randomly and the Foot pedal 2 [controller] adds a cutting noise.

NylonGuitar: Play normally and the voice is expressive and dynamic. The Foot pedal 2 [controller] changes the sounds to harmonics.

SmoothBrass: When brass instruments play legato, there is no attack sound on the legato notes. Super Articulation recreates this. Play legato and the notes join together, changing with velocity.

ConcertStrings: Strings can play legato, where each phrase is one continuous sound. Play legato and Super Articulation strings work in the same way. There are also three dynamic levels.

TrumpetFall: Jazz Trumpeters often use a fall or doit. Super Articulation recreates this with a velocity switch: Play harder to create the effect, change between fall and doit with the Modulation wheel. (Pushing forward changes to a doit.) Use the Foot pedal 2 [controller] to add breath noise.

Super Articulation 2 voices

For wind instrument Voices and Violin Voices, a special technology called AEM (see below) has been used, which features detailed samples of special expressive techniques used on those specific instruments—to bend or slide into notes, to “join” different notes together, or to add expressive nuances at the end of a note, etc. You can add these articulations by playing legato or non-legato, or by jumping in pitch by around an octave. For example, using the Clarinet Voice, if you hold a C note and play the Bb above, you’ll hear a glissando up to the Bb. Some “note off” effects are also produced automatically when you hold a note for over a certain time. Each S.Art2! Voice has its own default vibrato setting, so that when you select a S.Art2! Voice, the appropriate vibrato is applied regardless of the Modulation wheel position. You can adjust the vibrato by moving the Modulation wheel.

AEM Technology

When you play the piano, pressing a “C” key produces a definite and relatively fixed C note. When you play a wind instrument, however, a single fingering may produce several different sounds depending on the breath strength, the note length, the adding of trills or bend effects, and other performance techniques. Also, when playing two notes continuously—for example “C” and “D” these two notes will be smoothly joined, and not sound independent as they would on a piano.

AEM (Articulation Element Modeling) is the technology for simulating this characteristic of instruments. During performance, the most appropriate sound samples are selected in sequence in real time, from huge quantities of sampled data. They are smoothly joined and sounded—as would naturally occur on an actual acoustic instrument.

This technology to smoothly join different samples enables the application of realistic vibrato. Conventionally on electronic musical instruments, vibrato is applied by moving the pitch periodically. AEM technology goes much further by analyzing and disaggregating the sampled vibrato waves, and smoothly joins the disaggregated data in real time during your performance. If you move the Modulation wheel when you play the S.Art2! Voice (using AEM technology), you can also control the depth of the vibrato, and still maintain remarkable realism.

awesome. thank you very much pj!!!