I had solicted help for this as an addendum on another thread I started. For clarity sake, and expedited help, I’m giving it its own thread (plus, it’ll help others who search for same).

Thanks again to the folks that replied in that other thread.  However, at this point I find that I need specific info on the next step to take to transfer a Pattern to Master and have the sliders affect Volume.  I did read the responses, links, cautions, and the over-view concerning Midi channels, etc, but after much trial and error it’s not getting it done...I really need just to know specifically what steps to take (just as a link to ‘what steps to take to add additional Parts to a Pattern’ was proffered, and immediately got the job done for me on that issue).  Thanks again in advance....

I’m not sure if you have studied This Article yet, but it is a prerequisite to gaining a knowledge of how Master Mode works.

Once you understand how to associate a SONG or PATTERN MIXING with Master Mode...and activate ZONES...there is nothing more to do.  The CS sliders will adjust volume per ZONE (PART) automatically at that point.

It is all in the article.

I you look at p.212 in the Reference Manual, there’s very little to do:

Control Sliders 1 – 8
Indicates the levels of respective Control Sliders 1 – 8. The target to be adjusted by the Control Sliders differs depending on the mode memorized to the current Master

When the Pattern mode is memorized: Volume for Parts 1 – 16

This is not working for you?

I’m sorry, but I’m not getting it.  I’m reading all the links/material and tending to the keyboard but what I need to do remains elusive.

I have successfully put a Pattern into Master mode.  The first 6 Parts are spoken for and are all assigned to TR1 on the Pattern. Tr1 takes the name of the drumkit, the next 5 Tr’s are blank. They’re all assigned the same midi channel (TxCH1) which is why I presume they are all linked together and cannot be adjusted separately in pattern.  I believe I’m ok on all that.

So now I go to that Pattern as it appears in Master mode.  If I change any of the first 6 sliders, they all act the same and affect the volume of the sound in it’s entirety.  Of course what I’m trying to do is get the sliders to affect volume of the Parts individually.

What I cannot figure out is what to do next once I’m in Master to accomplish this.  And even before that, am I supposed to change something in Pattern first (midi destinations?)so Master midi assignments work properly.  I just don’t know, all I know is ‘set midi stuff accordingly’ and the info I see is just too general to get this done for me. I understand that it’s easy for you folks that have already done this, and there’s little doubt that somewhere within the wealth of information that I’ve been given that the answer lies.  However, I’ve read and I don’t see an instruction for what ‘I’ do at this point.

I appreciate all the time that folks are taking to respond.  But just like with my issue with how to add a 5th Part to a Pattern....it took a specific response to direct me toward the specific instruction on how to make that happen, before that I was getting everything but the ‘key instruction’, if you will.  Once there, it was easy as pie.  But getting there in this instance has been elusive despite a lot of time reading and tinkering.  Thanks again for your continued help....

OK, you have your PATTERN associated with a MASTER program, good.

From the Understanding Master Mode article, page 3:

...Rule 4: 128 MASTER Control setups can be created with a MOTIF XS Voice, Performance, Song or Pattern MEMORY location associated (memorized) with it. You have the option of activating the ZONE switch with any of them - which adds communication to both internal and external sounds to create your own Master setups.  You can have up to 8 Zones. The MOTIF XS can transmit to itself and OUT via MIDI on up to 8 Zones. Zones can address internal sounds and/or external sounds....

In MASTER Mode...with regard to the PATTERN/SONG you have brought in...you must activate ZONES.

From page 212 of the Reference Manual that meatballfulton cited:

In the Master mode, you can divide the keyboard into (up
to) eight independent areas (called “Zones”). Different
MIDI channels and different functions of the Knobs and
Control Sliders can be assigned to each Zone. This makes
it possible to control several Parts of the multi-timbral tone
generator simultaneously by a single keyboard or to control
Voices of an external MIDI instrument over several different
channels in addition to the internal Voices of this
synthesizer itself—letting you use the MOTIF XF to
effectively do the work of several keyboards. You can set
the parameters related to the eight Zones in the Master Edit
mode and store the settings as a User Master.

ZONES are activated per the ZONE Switch, under Common Edit, page 214 of the Reference Manual:

3) Zone Switch

Determines whether or not the keyboard will be divided into
(up to) eight independent areas (called “Zones”). For
details about Zones, see page 212.
Settings: on, off

Now, you set a different MIDI channel (1-8) and turn on the Internal Switch for each of the ZONES, per page 215 of the Reference Manual:

Zone Edit parameters
[MASTER]-->[EDIT]-->[1] – [8]

These parameters are for editing the individual Zones that
make up a Master. To call up the Zone Edit display, press
the [EDIT] button in the Master Play mode, then press any
of the Number buttons [1] – [8]. Press the [EXIT] button to
return to the Master Play display.

MIDI Transmit Channel/Switch Settings
—[F1] Transmit

From this display you can set how each Zone transmits
MIDI messages when you play the keyboard.
1) Transmit Channel

Determines the MIDI Transmit Channel for each Zone.
Settings: 1 – 16

2) Int Switch (Internal Switch)
Determines whether or not MIDI data for each Zone is
transmitted to the internal tone generator.

NOTE: When the Local Control parameter is set to “off” on the MIDIdisplay (page 228) in the Utility mode, MIDI data for each Zone will not be transmitted to the internal tone generator, even if the Int Switch parameter is set to “on.”

NOW, the sliders will address the (8) ZONES (which correspond to your up-to-8 PARTS) independently on (8) separate MIDI channels!

listen to cmayhle.
cmayhle is the one who got me there.
the way it happened is pretty much here in this thread:
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/473279/

first you create a MIXING. I did it with a SONG. it’s the same for a PATTERN though.
in a MIXING, you can have multiple Voices on multiple TRACKS. and you can put the TRACKS on their own individual MIDI channels.
now you can switch from TRACK to TRACK, and instantly play different VOICES.
the next step is associating the SONG/PATTERN MIXING with a MASTER.
MASTER mode gives you the ability to put 8 of your TRACKS on to their own ZONE. and you can play many ZONES at the same time.
remember to STORE often.
go back, and follow my thread. the PERFORMANCE CONTROL button came into play.
ok I just successfully did it in PATTERN.
it took me a while. I am not good at it yet.
couple thoughts:
you must get the transmit and receive channels bit right. I thought I had it, but I did not.
then I got it.
also you must have the ZONE switches ON. for every channel, and the main one.
also, the PERFORMANCE CONTROL button must be pushed to activate your 8 channels.

Cmayhle,

Thanks a lot for that, definitely appreciate your perserverance/tolerance.  I’m getting closer, but not there.

I had been to those screens before I read your latest post but couldn’t put it together.

So I thought I followed your latest instructions correctly (and it might have been what I tried previousy, hence my anxiety), but no change.

I’m in Master, there I have a Pattern with 6 Parts including a drum arp. I hit Edit in Master and immediately go to the Part Select buttons ( now for Zones) and under Transmit Channel I change the Zone for each of the 6 Parts (they are defaulted to ‘1’). I give Zone 1 a value of 1, Zone 2 a value of 2, etc, all the way to Zone 6 = 6.  I ‘think’ this is what you wanted me to do, but maybe not.

I additionally ‘checked off’ the Int Switch for each of the 6.

Question:  Before I press the individual Part Select buttons, I noticed that if I go to Edit and then Common, I see an option to set Zone Switch to ‘on’, it seems to be defaulted to ‘off’.  I tried both and seemingly no difference audibly or what it does to the individual zone settings when I go back to that page.  Is the setting of this common parameter of any consequence?

But anyway....I still get the same results.  I do the above and bring up any particular slider and everything works in a common all or nothing fashion, no separation of volumes, drum arp going on every slider.  I surmise that maybe I either understood what to do with the Zone settings or missed another item.  I did check in Utility to make sure that the internal midi setting referred to was not an issue.

Thanks yet again for hanging in there with me....

Your problem is you have the 6 tracks all on the same channel. That’s why one slider is controlling all 6. If you simply put each on it’s own track, you will get the behavior you want. If you actually have sequence data on that track, simply copy it to the other 5 tracks so all are identical.

obrother - 15 September 2014 08:04 PM

Cmayhle,

Thanks a lot for that, definitely appreciate your perserverance/tolerance.  I’m getting closer, but not there.

I had been to those screens before I read your latest post but couldn’t put it together…

I additionally ‘checked off’ the Int Switch for each of the 6.

Question:  Before I press the individual Part Select buttons, I noticed that if I go to Edit and then Common, I see an option to set Zone Switch to ‘on’, it seems to be defaulted to ‘off’.  I tried both and seemingly no difference audibly or what it does to the individual zone settings when I go back to that page.  Is the setting of this common parameter of any consequence? ....

I thought we had clearly established above that both the ZONE Switch and the Int. Switch must be checked ON.

The ZONE Switch activates the ZONES (1-8), and the Int. Switch instructs the ZONES to address the XF tone generator internally.

Both must be ON.  ZONE Switch On .  Int. Switch ON.

Semantics?

Possible confusion:
http://forums.macresource.com/read.php?1,785674

[✓] checked = ON
[   ] unchecked = OFF

Yes 5pinDIN , you may be on to something…

If checked off actually means checked on , it wouldn’t be the first time I suspected Bizarro World actually exists!

Anyway, I think we’re getting close to a successful resolution here.

Oy vey.....yes----semantics, mis-spoke, whatever you want to call it.  By “checked off” I meant the CHECK IS ON.  Oy vey (again).

To Meatball: there is no sequence data on the Pattern.

To Cmayhle:  The reason I inquired about the Zone Switch specifically was because I don’t think editing anything in Common was instructed.  I perhaps confused it with Int Switch or Zone 1,2 etc (speaking of word-play).  When I came across it I wanted to just make sure I should be changing that as well.  Of course I set it to ON, anyway.

So back to my original problem, knowing now that everything was CHECK ON......still at a dead end.

Thanks again

read B_M’s post in this thread:

http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/455159/

I read...it is not helping me. 

Doing as instructed, and not saying that I haven’t missed anything, but I listed what I ‘did’ do previously in the hopes that it’ll help.  From what I read from everybody, it appears that following the specific zone, etc instructions should have done the trick.  But, alas, they have not.

So, ideally, I need further examination of what I did that didn’t seem to make individual slider/volume control work.  Then, hopefully, someone will recognize a particular step that I neglected to take and I can fix the problem there.  Reading overviews of how all the midi stuff works is helpful on a certain level, but it’s not getting me to see what I’ve missed for my issue.

At this point, if it’s agreed that I’ve done everything properly per the midi zones, transmit this and that stuff, then I wonder if there’s some setting that I might have in the original Performance/Pattern, from whence this all came, that is preventing me from accomplishing what I need to.  When I’m in the Master edit mode and accessing the zones, etc...there are only so many edit options available, and I thought I did as instructed.  Thanks again to all....

Post slightly edited to retract inferences of frustration (’don’t bite the hand that feeds you’)

been there.
highly recommend keep your cool.
everybody is trying to help.
cmayhle has the patience of a saint, squared.
I was just messing with it on my xf8.
you have to set up your mixing (whether song or pattern).
you have to associate it with a master.
you have to store.
you have to have the main zone switch on.
you have to have the individual part zones tx on their own individual zones. 1 to 1, 2 to 2, 3 to 3..........
and the zone switch internal box must be checked.
you have to use edit and/or common edit. (trying to help here. if I make a mistake, I am sorry).
the last step, when everything is set right will be:
you have to use the performance control button. thats gonna be how you turn on or off the 8 zones. you can play any combination of the 8 zones.
note: when I tried to do this a few months ago, I could not. and I gave up.
fast forward to now.
I tried again. I got it.
I am still not good at it. it takes me a while. I press wrong buttons. but I can fumble my way through. I can do it.
remember to be aware of what mode you are in. and buttons can have different functionality in different modes.

Chasmananian:  You did it.

The missing link (and maybe it was within the wealth of info previously given) was that I had to go back to my Pattern and reset the Receive Channels to match it with what I intended to do in Master.  I did not understand that there was any further editing required from Pattern. Previously, all Parts were set to ‘1’, now I did the 1-1, 2-2, etc thing and voila...mission accomplished.  Thank you!

This brings up a side question: Since I had to edit/store my Pattern to accommodate the new Receive Channel configuration, it no longer functions to play the group of 6 sounds simultaneously (just one at a time now since each Part has a different Channel).  I assume that this is just the way it is.  That is, the Pattern won’t be useful for live performance any longer as is, but the trade off is that it found its rightful home in Master for that purpose.  Am I correct?

Additionally, I’d like to make an observation/bonus that came about through my inability to separate slider/volume function.  Hopefully, it’s useful info...it would be nice to know that I’m giving something back for all the help (and help to come).

Recently I posted/emailed/called here, there and everywhere concerning my discovery of the inability of the XF to affect Common features from AS1/2 as the XS did.  There was a host of problems associated with that, not the least of which was the inability to affect even just a singular Part (editable as it was) from the ‘home page’ of a Performance.

So while I took a Performance, and moved it to Pattern, and then to Master...I found out something.  And this was ‘before’, of course, I changed Channel Receive in Pattern.  I had Part Control (upper left) saved to affect Part 1 (from Cut-off to Assign 2).  Evidently, since everything (all 6 Parts) were going to Part 1 because I had not yet changed the Pattern Receive Channel, those knobs worked in a ‘Common’ fashion.....that included AS1/2.  I believe it resorted back to whatever Part may have been routed/saved to those AS1/2 knobs, so only what I wanted routed there to begin with (from my XS settings) carried over. I think, anyway.

The important thing is....with this set up, and with no separate volume slider control,etc...I did (re)gain Common functionality from AS1/2....and from the home page of the Master.  If I understand what happened correctly, the only minus (besides no indvidual slider control, etc) is that the XF would still have defaulted any previously saved AS1/2 value data to ‘0’, and it would be up to you to figure out what you had or reset it.  Hope this helps and I appreciate it if someone thinks I should repost this in its own thread as a potential workaround for the dreaded AS1/2 issue that has burdoned many users.