Listened to demos on YouTube of tyros 5, the expression of voices especially  saxophones and sounds and patterns of ‘live’ drums is amazing. How close does motif xf comes to tyros in terms of sounds especially drums, brass, woodwinds, basses and acoustic guitars ? I listened to demos of motif xf and checked it out at the store, but found it falling way behind tyros 5.
( workstations used to be ahead of arranger keyboards few years ago but now it seems vise verse )

Vhz - 17 August 2014 10:59 AM

[...]( workstations used to be ahead of arranger keyboards few years ago but now it seems vise verse )

Yamaha might be willing to resolve the situation if they could convince workstation purchasers to pay as much as arranger owners do.

:-)

5pinDIN - 17 August 2014 12:14 PM

Vhz - 17 August 2014 10:59 AM

[...]( workstations used to be ahead of arranger keyboards few years ago but now it seems vise verse )

Yamaha might be willing to resolve the situation if they could convince workstation purchasers to pay as much as arranger owners do.

:-)

Well, if yamaha would remove the styles it should be 1/3 price lower.

Arranger players can afford these expensive tyroses cuz that’s basically their whole set up, unlike workstation musicians who have quality studio monitors and computers and sound modules costing twice as much all together than a tyros.

But I know a lot of musicians who have tyros just for its sounds that don’t even use styles or it’s onboard sequencer. Maybe yamaha should change their strategy and not the end users. Because musicians will buy a better keyboard. If they put better sounds in a tyros they will buy a tyros instead of a motif. That’s why maybe tyros sales are higher than motif. If motif had tyros sounds perhaps motif would be selling better than tyros.

Yamaha would have had a more successful product if they would of just made a motif xf a tyros without an auto accompaniment. Why have 2 different technologies (Xa and sa2) when one completely better than the other? And why put a better technology in an entertainment keyboard instead of a professional workstation?? Absurd

Vhz - 17 August 2014 03:53 PM

Yamaha would have had a more successful product if they would of just made a motif xf a tyros without an auto accompaniment. Why have 2 different technologies (Xa and sa2) when one completely better than the other? And why put a better technology in an entertainment keyboard instead of a professional workstation?? Absurd

I Think the very best for all workstation users would be a Sound-Expander-Rack with the sounds in TYROS-quality. I´m hoping for this since the release of Tyros-IV

- SAMM -

I don’t have enough knowledge to say which technology Yamaha is using in Tyros SA/SA2 but my very humble speculation is it sounds very similar to VL series with minor improvements such as better sample sets…

Just saying and I’d be happy to know if it’s the case or not.

Hallo abdol,
VL or VP does NOT use samples but virtual models of the parts of an instrument that build the sound. It makes you possible to make “new” instruments like a string that is plucked in the body of a trumpet and made of the material of a drumhead. This technology is quite different to what happens in Tyros.
Tyros-Sound is FULLY sampling-based! The SA/SA2 technique gives you the possibility of getting parts of the sample, for example starting it AFTER the startpoint to imitate legato-style playing with saxophones aso. And you may add several “Noise"-samples through knobs or velocity. (This is a very light describtion of this technique!. And they use really very good sounding stuff!!!

So, you cannot compare SA with VL, its totally different!

Greetings
- SAMM -

SAMM - 21 August 2014 09:36 AM

Hallo abdol,
VL or VP does NOT use samples but virtual models of the parts of an instrument that build the sound. It makes you possible to make “new” instruments like a string that is plucked in the body of a trumpet and made of the material of a drumhead. This technology is quite different to what happens in Tyros.
Tyros-Sound is FULLY sampling-based! The SA/SA2 technique gives you the possibility of getting parts of the sample, for example starting it AFTER the startpoint to imitate legato-style playing with saxophones aso. And you may add several “Noise"-samples through knobs or velocity. (This is a very light describtion of this technique!. And they use really very good sounding stuff!!!

So, you cannot compare SA with VL, its totally different!

Greetings
- SAMM -

WOW!
I would need to examine your post for authenticity of facts
but it certainly was constructed with
a confident authority of wording!
I can say I know nothing about Tyros
I am satisfied with the XF8’ (s) I own.
(Black one in 2011, White one Yesterday!) :)
For the amount of investment money they cost individually
in contrast with their abilities,
they serve us well.

Hey man,
I am German so please excuse my english! I can not really understand what you will tell me by posting: “I would need to examine your post for authenticity of facts but it certainly was constructed with a confident authority of wording!”
I found out by listening the Yamaha-Synth-History that I had my hands on 17 of the mentioned Synthies (without the Pianos) since 1975, and mostly the top-models. And I can say that I “understand” all the keys I had,because ervery one had it´s own soul to be learned.
So the problem to explain the different models of synthesis for me is the lack of language because I mostly speak german!

So help me to understand what you are trying to tell to me!!!

Kind regards
- SAMM -

SAMM - 22 August 2014 10:41 AM

Hey man,
I am German so please excuse my english! I can not really understand what you will tell me by posting: “I would need to examine your post for authenticity of facts but it certainly was constructed with a confident authority of wording!”
I found out by listening the Yamaha-Synth-History that I had my hands on 17 of the mentioned Synthies (without the Pianos) since 1975, and mostly the top-models. And I can say that I “understand” all the keys I had,because ervery one had it´s own soul to be learned.
So the problem to explain the different models of synthesis for me is the lack of language because I mostly speak german!

So help me to understand what you are trying to tell to me!!!

Kind regards
- SAMM -

You work well with English!
Better than I would trying German!  :-)
Please forgive my inability to speak German, and I will try to explain.
WOW means I was surprised on your understanding and knowledge about Tyros.
As I said near the end, “I know nothing about Tyros”

WOW!
I would need to examine your post for authenticity of facts
but it certainly was constructed with
a confident authority of wording!
I can say I know nothing about Tyros
I am satisfied with the XF8’ (s) I own.
(Black one in 2011, White one Yesterday!) :)
For the amount of investment money they cost individually
in contrast with their abilities,
they serve us well.

...I was just surprised at what you said, and how you said it.

I would need to examine your post for authenticity of facts
but it certainly was constructed with
a confident authority of wording!

It sounded like a ‘Repair Technician’ or someone that works at Yamaha! :)
Please take no offense :)

Well, yamahaFan,
i´m selling Synths and other keyboards since 1981 and my first Yamaha Synths had been CS-60 and CS-40M. And I ever had much interest in understanding the machines and to get out the soul of it´s heart. For this reason some Keys don´t had a long life in my home and others I love ´till today.

So I might to be “yamahaFan v.II”!

Keep on rocking,
- SAMM -

SAMM - 22 August 2014 12:40 PM

Well, yamahaFan,
i´m selling Synths and other keyboards since 1981 and my first Yamaha Synths had been CS-60 and CS-40M. And I ever had much interest in understanding the machines and to get out the soul of it´s heart. For this reason some Keys don´t had a long life in my home and others I love ´till today.

So I might to be “yamahaFan v.II”!

Keep on rocking,
- SAMM -

Vielen Dank! Ich dachte du wärst im ‘Geschäft’ :)
Mein Deutsch nicht so gut?
http://www.bing.com/translator/
https://translate.google.com/#auto/en/Mein Deutsch nicht so gut?
If I verify one with the other… a good test.

SAMM - 21 August 2014 09:36 AM

Hallo abdol,
VL or VP does NOT use samples but virtual models of the parts of an instrument that build the sound. It makes you possible to make “new” instruments like a string that is plucked in the body of a trumpet and made of the material of a drumhead. This technology is quite different to what happens in Tyros.
Tyros-Sound is FULLY sampling-based! The SA/SA2 technique gives you the possibility of getting parts of the sample, for example starting it AFTER the startpoint to imitate legato-style playing with saxophones aso. And you may add several “Noise"-samples through knobs or velocity. (This is a very light describtion of this technique!. And they use really very good sounding stuff!!!

So, you cannot compare SA with VL, its totally different!

Greetings
- SAMM -

Hey my friend I understand that VL does physical modeling and I know it’s not sample based. But some of the effects are similar to physical modeling effects.
For example the pitch bend in MOTIF series does not bend the sound to lower/higher equivalent samples. When you use it, it creates a different sound (at leas to my ear). This tells me that There is a simple function used to just change the pitch of the sample based on a formula and not based on the lower or higher pithces.

To give a better description, just play C3 and then use pitch bend on it, then right after that, play the equivalent note you bended the pitch to. They will sound different.

If you look at the VL one instruments and their effects you’ll see there are some common ones (at least the one I’ve seen). So my humble guess is Tyros uses wavetables but at the same time it uses some of the effects from VL series to generate those nice instrumental effects. Then again this is just a speculation and I have NO advanced knowledge of Tyros and VL series whatsoever.
But based on my experience and what I have seen from Yamaha I doubt that their technology goes anything further than 90s.
For some reason Yamaha stopped developing of such instruments at some point and started selling samplers.

In my humble opinion Yamaha and software industry were at the same position 20 years ago. The same capabilities but Synth manufacturers stopped developing and investing in R&D;at some point (for an unknown reason) and that’s why software industry is picking up.

There are many aspects of Tyros or MOTIF that Yamaha, Korg, Roland etc need to work on if they want to create a super synth and I don’t see the will nor it happening.

Cheers.

@SAMM
One important key to the translators is to not use large paragraphs.
Single words, several words, or short sentences.
And always ‘Spell’ your language correctly. :-)
You write English very good and without a translator.
Kind Regards

abdol - 22 August 2014 04:16 PM

… For some reason Yamaha stopped developing of such instruments at some point and started selling samplers....

I’m guessing their research determined that the market for sampling synthesizers...and the broad range of popular instruments they can emulate...was much larger than more narrowly-focused or specialized machines.

Not here to compare Tyros to Motif XF, but the statement that Yamaha (e.g. synth designers) stopped investing in R&D;20 yrs ago baffled me.