Hi there.
I observed very strange behavior when working with SCENES in SONG mode on my MOXF.

I create a Song with 3 voices, set midi channel for all 3 voices to 1, no special filters used. Then I store 2 scenes:

Scene 1:
Part 1 - Volume 70, MIDI channel 1, voice 1
Part 2 - Volume 70, MIDI channel 1, voice 2
Part 3 - Volume 100, MIDI channel 1, voice 3

Scene 2
Part 1 - Volume 50, MIDI channel 1, voice 1
Part 2 - Volume 70, MIDI channel 1, voice 2
Part 3 - Volume 0, MIDI channel 1, voice 3

I backup my Songs using standard procedure via FILE saving ALL to my USB stick. When I load my Songs back (using option ALL) I get the following setup.

Without pushing SF1 I’m getting exactly the same sound as originally stored under SCENE 1, however when I push SF1 or SF2 I see the following (when checking settings in MIX):

Scene 1:
Part 1 - Volume 70, MIDI channel 1, voice 1
Part 2 - Volume 0, MIDI channel 1, voice 2
Part 3 - Volume 0, MIDI channel 1, voice 3

Scene 2
Part 1 - Volume 0, MIDI channel 1, voice 1
Part 2 - Volume 0, MIDI channel 1, voice 2
Part 3 - Volume 0, MIDI channel 1, voice 3

In addition, after SF1 activation the following filters are applied to all voices/PARTs:
- Cutoff -64
- Reso -64
- Attack -64
- Release - 64
- Pan L64
Same filters are applied for SF2/SCENE2.

I also sent the MOXF to factory settings in order to clean-up all potential settings I made over time but it didn’t help me as well.

I’m not new in the MOTIF/MOX world but this is something I need to help with. Any idea why
- I can’t recall stored SCENEs properly?
- Why additional filters are applied to all voices/PARTs?
- Why volumes are set as shown in my example above?

I need to use different SONG images as I coop with more bands, therefore regular and often image changes with proper settings are absolutely crucial for me.

Thank you ahead for any hint.

I love a mystery. Usually the answer lies in the details possibly left out.

For example, what if anything is connected to the MIDI or USB jacks at the time this occurs?
MIDI being a serial interface data travels literally one after the other, if the data is sent out and echoed back to the instrument in a loop, chaos typically follows. Although that should not, prevent a stored Scene from recalling properly (as far as I know)

What if anything is sequenced in the Song?
MIDI on the tracks will override your Scene settings as soon as play begins… Any messages in the track will cause the parameters to change as programmed Attack cc73, Release cc72, Cutoff cc74, Resonance cc71, Pan cc10

Did you do the Factory reset before creating the Scenes?
I ask because since all Scenes inherit the minimum Filter Cutoff and Resonance settings, Attack and Release settings, and strangely Pan Left - it’s as if you turned all the knobs fully counterclockwise.

Did you know the act of recalling a Song acts as Scene 0?
The act of recalling the Song sends initial settings for all controllers as set when STORED the SONG settings.

I tried your settings as listed in your post and had no problems getting it to behave as you intend so the cause is something not mentioned… Or ghosts in the machine :-)

Today I went to a music store to verify/simulate this behavior using a different unit of the same model - MOXF6. The unit was new, FW V1.01.0, Boot V1.00, no MIDI/USB connected, just power supply and headphones connected - completely isolated keyboard. I got the same result.

Here is my SIMPLE TEST STEP BY STEP confirming there is an issue on this keyboard:

CREATE TESTING SONG
- Set machine to Factory Settings (UTILITY/JOB/ENTER) - this step just eliminates all potential residuals from programming (if any)
- Go to SONG and select 1st empty Song (e.g. No. 4)
- Give a name to the song (JOB/SONG/04-Song Name), e.g. TEST

CHECK THE SETTINGS BEFORE BACKUP
- Don’t change anything in the Song, just verify basic settings using MIX and KNOB FUNCTION (Tone 1,2,3). There will be Full Concert Grand Piano in every PART, Volume set to 100, all filters set to 0 or OFF, all PARTS on individual MIDI channels

CREATE SCENES
- Create SCENE 1 using STORE/SF1 button, you can also create another identical SCENE 2 using STORE/SF2 (just for reference)
- Play the keyboard, recall SCENE 1 or 2, check/play other PARTs, everything is fine so far - clear piano sound, Vol. 100, no filters

DO A BACKUP
- Insert USB stick
- Do a backup to a USB stick - FILE/SAVE/AllSong

RESTORE SONG(s) FROM THE BACKUP
- Restore all songs (or just one song) from a USB stick - FILE/LOAD/AllSong or just Song named TEST

- Play the keyboard again, change PARTS, check settings - everything works fine with original/default settings ...

... UNTIL ... you push SF1 or SF2.

Once you do it the Volume of all PARTS except PART1 will be set to 0 and crazy filters (see my original post) will be applied to ALL PARTS in ALL SONGS!

MY CONCLUSION IS:
- There must be a problem with the FW
- Something wrong happens during the backup operation itself
- Strange parameters consequently overwrite original SCENE settings during the backup process
- Once you load back such SONG(s) where SCENES are used ALL! SONGS are affected (restoring one SONG will also completely destroy other songs)
- After such “restore” you can start to set your SCENES once again from beginning (great stuff if you have to do it for 40 songs!)
- There is no way (at least I haven’t found it) how to get back to the original status before backup with proper SCENES.

CAN SOMEONE ELSE TO CONFIRM/VALIDATE THIS BUG?

Bad_Mister - If you or someone else confirm this bug what is the process of escalation back to Yamaha?

Thanks,
Martin

mk01home - 12 June 2014 05:05 PM

Today I went to a music store to verify/simulate this behavior using a different unit of the same model - MOXF6. The unit was new, FW V1.01.0, Boot V1.00, no MIDI/USB connected, just power supply and headphones connected - completely isolated keyboard. I got the same result.[...]

I don’t know if it in any way relates to what you’re experiencing or not, but the current OS version is 1.03.

If your MOXF firmware isn’t that version, it can be downloaded here: http://download.yamaha.com/file/60560

Hi 5pinDIN.
I have newer FW version (V1.03.0) on my own MOXF6 - the latest one as you correctly stated in your post.
Any other views/confirmation?
Thanks,
Martin

Guys,
Please advice how to contact Yamaha engineering team in order to escalate this bug. I can’t find the right link/address where to send it.
Thanks for any hint.
Martin

mk01home - 16 June 2014 03:21 AM

Guys,
Please advice how to contact Yamaha engineering team in order to escalate this bug. I can’t find the right link/address where to send it.
Thanks for any hint.
Martin

See page 79 of the MOXF Owner’s Manual for an address in your country. If possible, I’d suggest calling first, and speak to a support person. They should be able to give you further information.

CAN SOMEONE ELSE TO CONFIRM/VALIDATE THIS BUG?

Bad_Mister - If you or someone else confirm this bug what is the process of escalation back to Yamaha?

A note was sent to engineering about this. Scene Memory is not being restored properly from the File.
The Scene Memory is properly storing and restoring your settings, it is after the data is restored from a File that the bogus settings occur. That pinpoints the issue for them to study.

It has nothing to do with the content of your SCENE, everything you are requesting it to do, it can and should be able to do. It is the information contained in the Scene after it is restored from the File that is corrupted.

Thank you Bad_Mister for your follow up. Waiting for an update.

Hey, guys.
Finally, this problem is fixed with the newest firmware release V1.10 dated July 17th, 2014. :-) Before starting with the update save ALL of your current settings to a USB stick!

Note: Using older fw V1.03 for backup operation and newer fw V1.10 for restore won’t load your scenes properly! The rest of your settings will be fine. You have to set your scenes once again! If you operate V1.10 already, backup and restore works fine. 

Download the latest fw from Yamaha web site and follow the following procedure (steps 3 and 4 differ from the official guidalines):

1. After downloading , copy the uncompressed following files to a USB flash memory. No other files should be present on the USB flash memory (only 8L26OS_.PGM).
2. Power off the MOXF.
3. Hold down the [LEVEL] meter button, then power on the MOXF.
4. Connect the USB flash memory prepared in step 1 to the USB [TO DEVICE] terminal of the MOXF.
5. After the message “Update MOXF 6/8. Press [REC]” appears, press [REC]. The updater will begin with the “Checking File,” “PROG Erasing,” and “PROG Writing **%” messages.
6. When the “Completed. Reboot MOXF 6/8” message appears, turn off the MOXF6/MOXF8 and remove the USB flash memory.
7. Power on the MOXF6/MOXF8.

Good luck!