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Viewing topic "old Logic Songs not working after firmware upgrade"

     
Posted on: February 02, 2009 @ 04:28 PM
nslhrn
Total Posts:  25
Joined  07-24-2008
status: Regular

What happened? I loaded the firmware upgrade from the Yamaha site moving me to 1.02 the latest. The update seemed to go well. Now my Logic songs using the Motif don’t play correctly. The drum tracks are playing completely different drums from the patch and completely different patches.  A few of the patches are the same per song but there are as many that don’t match as those that do.

I use the Multi-mode on the Motif. Before the upgrade, when I loaded a song, I’d only have to press stop and the multi would switch from whatever is currently loaded in the Motif to those that are setup for the song.

Here is a quick email I sent to Yamaha support describing a problem I had upgrading the firmware. Thanks for any help


______________________

I have just completed a firmware update fro 1.0014 to 1.02. Downloaded the most recent firmware from the website last night(Feb. 1,2009) After running the firmware update through Cubase AI the first time, the process completed but the unit did not work as expected. The load got interrupted but upon resuming the load, the Motif completed the firmware upload and displayed ‘firmware uppgrade complete successful” So after this first attempt at upgrading the firmware, the songs I had already programmed in Logic Pro 8, did not call up the correct patches in the Multi mode.

I ran the firmware update a second time and I’m having the same problem. There are audio glitches(distortion via spidf) to my Presonus FireProject Studio. These distortions weren’t there before the update but is present after both attempts to upgrade the firmware bulk load via Cubase AI4. My primary concern is that I can have the Motif’s multi mode functioning properly in my current Logic projects. My second most concern is have the audio via spidf clean. How do I get rid of these distortions? What got altered? I can use the analogue outs for now. Both attempts at a firmware upgrade where interrupted because of other software functioning on my system. Both attempts were resumed successfully such that the Motif display showed the upgrade to be successful and to restart the Motif. One problem with Cubase AI4 was that when I switched away from the application the transport stopped working. i couldn’t find a ‘play in background’ option in Cubase AI4 so when software update automatically opened, the transport stopped. Fortunately the Motif was very smart and paused until i returned to the Cubase application. Once I returned to the reselected the Cubase AI4 application to be the primary focus window, the bulk load resumed. The second firmware update I performed got stopped by my system going to sleep. The Cubase program then refused to resume. I had to force quit the application. oF course, the Motif screen displayed that an error ahd occured and that the load was not succesful however, it was still waiting for instructions. I stared the load again from the begining and the led on the Motif displayed the spinning prompt, so I allowed the restarted Cubase AI4 to run until it caught up to the point that it left off, the Motif seemed happy with the restart and did resume the load of the firmware. For the second time, the Motif displayed that the load was successful and to turn the Motif off. I turned it off back on and the same problems occured after the second ‘successful’ firmware update. My Logic songs won’t play using the patches I used upon creation of those performances. 

I am able to use my Motif Rack XS Multi-Mode with Cubase AI4 successfully (excluding the digital distortion in spidf) So, do I need to reset or update my Logic Mutli-Instrument to work with whatever has been changed in the Motif firmware? What do I do ?

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Posted on: February 03, 2009 @ 09:10 AM
Bad_Mister
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Total Posts:  36648
Joined  07-30-2002
status: Jedi Knight

Re: old Logic Songs not working after firmware upgrade

You should wait to hear back from Yamaha support… as they will most likely have history on people who have had trouble with the update. I have yet to encounter anyone with an issue.

It seems you have successfully updated the firmware… resist the urge to do it again. It is not like it reports “success” when it was not successful. Doing it a second or third time only adds to your frustration.

In the meantime, Here are few things to try:
1) Perform a Factory Set this will return all settings to out-of the box condition… Be sure to backup any custom data that you have created first.
UTILITY > FACTORY SET > ENTER > ENTER

2) I would check the on-board settings to make sure you are not overloading your SPDIF device… The Motif-Rack XS output can be set in UTILITY > General > Page 4/5

If set to +6dB you may try lowering it to 0dB.

3) not being able to hear the S/PDIF distortion problem… I recommend that you also verify that there is not a sample rate conversion setting that needs to take place in your receiving device. The Motif-Rack XS is 24-bit/44.1kHz

Many digital devices have built-in Sample Rate Converter (SRC) that will automatically adjust a signal at the Digital IN… check the documentation of the PreSonus, as this could sound like distortion (and would be only on the S/PDIF bus).

If there is a SRC option be sure it is ON, then you can operate at any sample rate you desire. If the unit does not have a SRC then it will be important that you match the sample rate - this is classic SPDIF distortion.

As to why your Drum Tracks are playing completely different drums… I am confident this has little to do with the update, unless, of course, you did not STORE and backup your Multis… In which case they are likely to have been returned to Factory settings after the update. You do not mention how you backed up your multis - or if you did at all.

Oh, and by the way, verify that the version is correctly displayed in the Motif-Rack XS:
Press [UTILITY] + [EDIT] together to display the DEMO screen…
Press and hold the the [AUDITION] button for 2 seconds to display the version: 1.02.1

Anyway, let us know.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: February 04, 2009 @ 12:39 PM
nslhrn
Total Posts:  25
Joined  07-24-2008
status: Regular

Re: old Logic Songs not working after firmware upgrade

The support from Yamaha wasn’t helpful at all and only focused on one of my issues.

Yes my Firmware says 1.02.1

The spdif issue seems to have resolved itself Firestudio Project must have syncd improperly before. It seems fine after some computer restarts and presonus reboots. I did a factory reset and that seemed to help with weired panning and volume level issues. I will have to go back and check the db setting.

I solved the multi issue by turning off the arpeggios of the multis I use for Logic songs.  So patches are loading correctly and playing correctly, except drum tracks.

The only issued that remains is that my drum patches play incorrectly. The correct patch loads by name but instead ofhearing bass, drum and hi-hat, I hear toms, bongos and other instruments of the drumkit(patch) that I didn’t choose. In my Logic default setup, I usually use midi channel 3 for drums. None of my previously sequenced compositions are sounding the correct percussion instruments inside the properly loaded drumkit/patch. I tried changing the channel to 10 - that worked the proper sounds were in the mix. When I changed back to channel 3-the wrong sounds were played. I don’t know why this is happening in only my old songs. Whether I have the midi channel set to 3 or 10, if I play the drumkit/patch from the keyboard, the proper percussion instrument is sounded; only on playback of my old songs does the midi channel have to be 10 for drums at this point.

By the way, the way I use the Motif multi setting is to initialize the 1st multi Chilltronika(or whatever that patch name) Once I cleared it out, I use it to compose in Logic. So whatever patches I chose from Logic, the corresponding part(per midi channel) in the multi would change to that sound. So all 16 parts would be covered by using this one multi and allowing Logic to send a change patch command to the Motif multi when I open a song and press stop. Usign it that way, no matter what song I load, when I pres stop, Logic sends the patch change to the Motif Multi #1 the Motif parts would change to match the Logic settings. So I didn’t really have to save in any user multis on the Motif, I just needed to clean out the first multi after upgrading the firmware. Perhaps there is a better way of working the Motif from within Logic, I’d love to hear anyone’s suggestions. Eventually, I’ll take the Motif on stage but for now it sits in the homeo(home studio).

Strangely, if I start a new song from scratch, I can set any midi channel to drums and the right sounds are played on record and playback. So, I’m confused as to why the song would properly load all the correct patches but the drums(only) would play different percussion instruments per patch than those I selected. Hope that makes sense cause I need for my old songs to work with as little tweaking as possible. Mixes take forever-these did.

Any suggestions? Thanks for the great response to my original post.

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Posted on: February 05, 2009 @ 04:31 AM
Bad_Mister
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Total Posts:  36648
Joined  07-30-2002
status: Jedi Knight

Re: old Logic Songs not working after firmware upgrade

I’m having difficulty following exactly what your issue(s) is/are. First it was the SPDIF - which seems to have fixed itself… Unlikely, perhaps it was a mismatch initially in sample rate (not uncommon).

Then the drum kits were not being recalled… now it sounds as if - the correct kit is recalled but the notes are wrong… perhaps there is a note shift or transposition of the data. Simply double check your setup and your data.

Let us know. Certainly there was nothing about the firmware change that has anything to do with any of the problems you listed (and most likely why support from Yamaha wasn’t that helpful)

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Posted on: February 05, 2009 @ 01:48 PM
nslhrn
Total Posts:  25
Joined  07-24-2008
status: Regular

Re: old Logic Songs not working after firmware upg

Thanks. I believe the firmware upgrade removed some set up that I dont’ recall doing. After clearing out the multis, my songs are sounding like my songs except for the drumkits.

Yamaha told me to switch them all to channel 10 and that if I have songs that use multiple drmkits on multiple tracks to use channels above 10.

Strange issues to have, I know. But non-of these were there before my upgrade.

THere were 3 issues after the upgrade.
1) wrong patches - turns out they were the correcet patches but the arpeggio settings were set to ‘on’ after the firmware update as opposed to beign set to ‘off’ whcih is how I used the Motif before.
2)the second issue is that any of my drum tracks woiuld chose the correct kit but not the correct sound on the kit. I still have not figure out why this happens. If change the channel to 10 everything works correctly.
3) Digital distortion in the spidf track. The digital distortion comes and goes. The best thing for that hs been to set the Main L&R level to ‘0’ rather than’+6’ After doing that the distortion is minimal. I thought at first it was sample rate but I think the Firestudio Project automatically adjust for the incoming sample rate. I’, still learning about this

So if you combine problems 1,2 and 3. My old songs sound nothing like the should. Remove problem #3 and my songs sound nothing like they should. The combination of problems 1 and 2 make the mix sound completely different. So, once I figure out the drum channel issue OR change all my old songs to channel 10 or higher then things may be perfect for me.

I can see that non of these were ‘caused’ by the firmware upgrade but the only things that changed between m songs sounding right and them sounding different is the firmware upgrade. So whatever changed happened inside of the Motif. I’m just trying to get to the bottom of what changed on my Motfi.

Let me try another way ---> How should the firmware upgrade have affected my work in Logic ? 

To be most truthful here is the reply from Yamaha after I told them that drumkits seem to be my only issue.

Try channel 11 for the other tracks. You have to experiment. If not, make a custom drum kit to corespond with your midi drum notes that you are transmitting and use that kit.

AND

Regarding model:MOTIF RACK XS
>> Since the update added MSB, LSB, and program change capabilities for
>> MULTI’s perhaps it may be confused by certain program changes being
>> sent by logic. Make sure the program and bank numbers match those in
>> the data list.
>> Thank you,
>> Lxxxx Cxxxxx
>> Yamaha PAC Support
>> 714.522.9000

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: February 06, 2009 @ 05:25 AM
Bad_Mister
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Total Posts:  36648
Joined  07-30-2002
status: Jedi Knight

Re: old Logic Songs not working after firmware upg

If your data is a General MIDI file (and the Channel 10 for drums assignment leads me to believe it is) the only thing that the update did was to make the MSB and LSB for Bank Select protocol work for recalling Multis via teh dedicated Control Change messages. A message of MSB = 063, LSB = 068, and a Program Change 0-127

If you have a GM Reset message in your data or if you have a MSB/LSB messages to select kits this may be your issue. Without any knowledge of what data is in your tracks it is difficult to say… why you are not getting the data you expect. The unit cannot make decisions on its own (as I’m sure you are aware).

But it should be easy enough (since you have the data and can look it) to determine what exactly is going on. It should not be difficult to discover what is what, particulary so you don’t wind up with a sentence that begins: “wrong patches - turns out they were the correcet patches but…

The update could not turn on the ARP Switch (or at least it should not have).

And it should also be easy to determine when the correct kit is selected - why the correct sound is not playing.... unless Logic has changed your data. Note C1 (36) should still be triggering a KICK drum (if not, you will know something).

You have the data so it should not be difficult to look at it and determine exactly what happened and which notes are not triggering the correct sounds. But surely the 1.02.1 did not change the data in your sequence… Take a close look and let us know.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: February 06, 2009 @ 01:00 PM
nslhrn
Total Posts:  25
Joined  07-24-2008
status: Regular

Re: old Logic Songs not working after firmware upg

Bad_Mister,

All is working ! You were right about the multi settings. I don’t recall ever setting them to anything in particular. Today I went into the Studio Manger and created a basic template that had no arpeggios, just 16 channels of instrumental readiness and VIOLA!

Now when I turn on the Motif it starts in Multi mode with an initialized multi that auto configures when I open a song. The combination of arpeggios and wrong drums had my mind twisted. Like any hardworking creator, I freaked when my work seemed to disappear. No that everything is back on track. I’m going to write something AND listen to my old tracks to refresh my mind. Thanks for your help.


  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: February 11, 2009 @ 01:36 PM
nslhrn
Total Posts:  25
Joined  07-24-2008
status: Regular

Re: old Logic Songs not working after firmware upg

Bad-Mister,

One other thing. I just got another email from Yamaha Support letting me know that the problem has happened more than with me. That to have the drum patches play correctly I should initialize a mutli :

Regarding model:MOTIF RACK XS
Please re-Initialize the MULTI, then reselect your drum kits. This is the fix
for those experiencing this mismatch after the firmware update.
Thank you,
Lxx Cxxxxxxxxxx
Yamaha PAC Support

To INITIALIZE A MULTI
select a mutl you wish to clear.
Hold down MULTI the press ENTER.
Thank you,
Lxxxxx Cxxxxxxxxxx
Yamaha PAC Support


Pretty much what we found out. Thanks again.

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